Car Chat General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news.

EPA rates the Volt: 93 MPG-equivalent on electricity, 37 MPG gas, 60 MPG combined

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 10-11-10, 07:14 PM
  #241  
Sens4Miles
Lead Lap
 
Sens4Miles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 543
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by TRDFantasy
The Volt's gas engine has a direct mechanical link to the wheels, and directly powers the wheels at some points (high speed or when the battery is low). It is a hybrid. Period. You need to stop believing the GM hype.
Right, it directly powers the wheels but only when the battery is depleted (estimated - 40 miles). What about this concept do you not understand? The Plug-in Prius hybrid will operate as an electric car up until 13 miles, then operate as a regular prius (hybrid - meaning two drive systems operating in sync with each other to produce the best gas mileage). The Volt does not operate in any of the same ways at all. It's a 2-way drive system that does not function in the same way as any hybrid currently on the market. If you want to call it a hybrid, go right ahead. You can call it a filet o' fish if you want to. Doesn't change the fact that the correct terminology for this technology is EREV (Extended Range Electric Vehicle).
Sens4Miles is offline  
Old 10-11-10, 07:16 PM
  #242  
Och
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (3)
 
Och's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 16,436
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 13 Posts
Default

Yawn...

Lets call it fillet of crocodile and move on already.

With that being said, is that thing on sale yet?
Och is offline  
Old 10-11-10, 07:37 PM
  #243  
CK6Speed
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (1)
 
CK6Speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: HI
Posts: 7,719
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Well, its a real bummer if the ICE is directly driving the wheels. That is not the type of car the Volt was advertised as and not what I would have wanted. I loved the idea of an all electric running car with an on board gas generator. That would have made sense if they could have pulled it off because you wouldn't need to burn gas unless you had to. With a pure EV, even with a 100 mile range I still would be worried about running out of charge. Only place most people will be able to charge up is at home.
CK6Speed is offline  
Old 10-11-10, 07:37 PM
  #244  
TRDFantasy
Lexus Fanatic
 
TRDFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I'm not going to argue this any further, but you can continue refuse to believe the definition of a hybrid, your choice. If I were you, I would look it up in the dictionary.

That terminology never existed before. It's terminology that GM made up, which is all based around the hype they generated for the Volt.

Sorry, the "correct" terminology to me is the English meaning of the word hybrid, not some "EREV" terminology that GM came up with.

With that, I leave you with the dictionary definitions of hybrid:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hybrid
Originally Posted by Merriam-Webster Dictionary
something (as a power plant, vehicle, or electronic circuit) that has two different types of components performing essentially the same function
So yes, according to Webster's dictionary, the Volt has two different types of components that do perform essentially the same function. Therefore it is a hybrid in my eyes, and to most other English speakers.

Doesn't matter how the two power sources work with each other or work within the car. The Volt has two power sources, and both sources power the car. It's a hybrid, the end.

Here is also a definition from Cambridge dictionary:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...british/hybrid
Originally Posted by Cambridge Dictionary
a vehicle with an engine that uses both petrol and another type of energy, usually electricity
Finally, the World English Dictionary defines hybrid as:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hybrid
Originally Posted by World English Dictionary
a vehicle that is powered by an internal-combustion engine and another source of power such as a battery
TRDFantasy is offline  
Old 10-11-10, 07:53 PM
  #245  
GFerg
Speaks French in Russian

Thread Starter
 
GFerg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: What is G?
Posts: 13,281
Received 64 Likes on 49 Posts
Default

All of these so called "lies" hasnt changed my view on the car. I still think its an awesome advance in technology used here. I welcome the Volt and its something that Toyota needed from a competition standpoint (Tesla partnership and other future hybrid tech. potentially fast tracked because of it) I do think some of the criticism is a little premature and like other hybrids, some real world users have been able to beat MPG estimates. Like Toyota, GM has to start somewhere.
GFerg is offline  
Old 10-11-10, 08:03 PM
  #246  
TRDFantasy
Lexus Fanatic
 
TRDFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Lies and pricing aside, I agree it's an impressive piece of technology. It also looks unique without copying the Prius, even if it looks a bit like a Civic from the front end. Honda could learn a thing or two here.

I just wish GM had been honest and straightforward about the car from the beginning.
TRDFantasy is offline  
Old 10-11-10, 08:04 PM
  #247  
GFerg
Speaks French in Russian

Thread Starter
 
GFerg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: What is G?
Posts: 13,281
Received 64 Likes on 49 Posts
Default

Chevy Volt Surprise

http://www.automobilemag.com/green/n...ise/index.html


Cleanse your mind of what you think you know about the Chevy Volt. It is not just an electric car. It does not operate as implied by GM for the past three years. Now that production has begun and customer deliveries are about to commence, the secrets are out. A true explanation of exactly what makes the wheels turn can finally be told.

According to Larry Nitz, GM's executive director of electric and hybrid powertrain engineering, this bit of bait and switch was necessary to safeguard the intellectual properties necessary to make the Volt a true technological leap forward. During the past three-plus year of engineering and development, GM applied for several patents to protect many small and large inventions. Those patents have been issued and Nitz is finally comfortable speaking frankly about what's under Volt's hood.

The Volt concept car, which debuted at the 2007 North American International Auto Show in Detroit, had an AC motor connected to and permanently driving the front wheels. A turbocharged 1.0-liter 3-cylinder gasoline engine powered a generator which supplied current to the drive motor, but only after the onboard lithium ion battery pack was depleted. This system, which GM called E-Flex, provided an electrical connection between the two portions of the powertrain but no mechanical connection.

When the evolution of the promising concept into a practical production car began in earnest, GM engineers immediately ventured beyond E-Flex. Maintaining a strong emphasis on electric propulsion, they added parts and increased the role of the gasoline engine. The finished product-now called Voltec--is much closer to a Toyota Prius than a Nissan Leaf. Volt is the first extended-range electric car, as advertised, and more.

Secret Gears and Clutches!

1. The previously undisclosed heart of the matter is an automatic transmission consisting of one planetary gear set and three electronically controlled, hydraulically activated multi-plate clutches. This ingenious transmission efficiently blends electrical and mechanical attributes to drive the wheels with utmost efficiency. All Volt powertrain components-two electric motor-generators, the 1.4-liter 84-hp gasoline engine, the aforementioned transmission, and a final-drive differential-are bolted together in a single unit to save space and weight and to optimize NVH characteristics.

Volt has two of practically everything: Two forms of portable energy (gasoline and electricity). Two electric motor-generator machines. Two primary modes of operation-using electricity stored in the lithium-ion battery pack or the energy available from 9.3-gallons of premium gasoline carried in a sealed tank. And two distinct transmission ranges. That yields a Rubik's cube of driving possibilities. To provide 40 or so miles of pure-electric operation and 300 or so miles of 'extended' range with the gasoline engine running, the Volt has five distinct operating routines.

Battery-Electric Propulsion

1. Leaving home with a fully charged battery pack provides 40 or so miles of driving range with the engine and generator inoperative. The 149-hp permanent-magnet AC motor draws electricity from the 16kWh battery pack to drive the front wheels through a 7.0:1 speed reducer/torque multiplier.

2. Like any energy-conversion device, electric motors are more efficient at certain operating speeds. When the Volt exceeds fifty mph, a clutch holding the planetary gear set's ring gear is released. A second clutch engages to connect that ring gear to the smaller of the two electric motors. Now both electric motors draw electricity from the battery pack and the effective drive ratio shifts to 2.16:1. Top speed is governed at 100mph.

Hybrid Gasoline and Electric Propulsion

3. When the Volt's battery is depleted to a 30-percent or so state of charge, the gasoline engine is automatically started to give the battery a rest. The clutch connecting the gasoline engine to the smaller electric machine closes so that this device, now acting as a generator, can provide electricity to the main electric-drive motor. Another clutch holds the ring gear fixed, yielding a 7.0:1 overall drive ratio between the motor and the half shafts powering the Volt's front wheels. This regime is used for speeds below 30 mph.

4. At higher cruising speeds, the planetary ring gear is again released, shifting the AC motor drive ratio to 2.16:1. The engine continues providing the power to spin the generator which in turn supplies the drive motor with electric current. In addition, the engine supplies torque to the planetary ring gear through the smaller electric machine. (This is the engine driving-the-wheels scenario heretofore denied by GM.) Operating in this regime, the Volt is both a series hybrid and a parallel hybrid.

Regenerative Braking

5. Like all hybrids and electric vehicles, the Volt uses regenerative braking to convert unwanted momentum to electrical energy. When accelerator pedal pressure is reduced and/or the brake pedal is applied, the main drive motor temporarily operates as a generator and the electrical current so produced partially restores the battery's state of charge.

To trump both the Prius and the Leaf, Volt combines their merits in one handy advanced-technology sedan. It employs cheaper and cleaner electrical energy drawn from the grid. It provides efficient electric drive without the usual compromises. It uses gasoline intelligently in a supporting role. It is a pure electric, a series hybrid, and a parallel hybrid all rolled into one.

That begs a daunting question: is Volt the right car for the times or another technological flight to nowhere? The only answers that matter will come from consumers -- both those who buy a Volt and report their level of satisfaction and also those who kick the tires but ultimately spend their dollars elsewhere.
GFerg is offline  
Old 10-11-10, 08:17 PM
  #248  
GFerg
Speaks French in Russian

Thread Starter
 
GFerg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: What is G?
Posts: 13,281
Received 64 Likes on 49 Posts
Default

A different perspective on GM's "lie"


How GM Didn't 'Lie' About The Volt, And Why The Press Is Wrong



You may have seen this morning's media frenzy about General Motors' "lie" about the Volt's ability to directly drive the wheels with its range-extending gasoline engine. What you may not know is that the publications screaming "lie!" are doing little more than running self-serving, tabloid-worthy headlines.

I'm not typically a fan of electric cars, at least in their current states of being. A car that can't go from one town to another across the desert Southwest, or which sees drastically reduced performance depending on the weather isn't really a car, in my book. It's a toy, a status symbol, a raised nose at the "gas guzzlers" that drive by on their way to some distant destination. But the 2011 Chevy Volt doesn't fall into that trap.

What the Volt isn't
In addition to driving 40 miles on nothing but electric power, it carries its own generator on board, making the non-existent national charging network irrelevant. And, as we learned today (though we had off-the-record hints several months ago from some of the Volt's top team members) it can also use the onboard engine to add some direct power to the wheels once the battery is depleted.

For a person that likes cars, appreciates efficiency, and couldn't care less about the definitional semantics the rest of the press is engaged in, that's fantastic. Is it a pure EV? Yes, for the first 40 miles. After that, no, it was never intended to be. Is it a hybrid? Not really, as it can run at highway speeds on nothing but electricity for its stated range of 40 miles, and falls back on mechanical drive power only under certain conditions, which is sort of the inverse of a typical mild hybrid. A plug-in hybrid? Sort of, if you don't mind blurring a few lines.

The question you might be asking now is, "What, then, IS the Volt?" There's an answer for that, but first we need some background.

The "lie"
Sampling the buff book testing, since they got their hands on it early and started the "GM lied" hysterics, the Volt is a family sedan that's capable of real-world mileage in the 30-40 mpg range over a week's period without any recharging. In other words, the first 40 miles aside, the range-extending system delivers performance about on par with real-world results from the Toyota Prius, Honda Insight, Ford Fusion, and other comparable hybrids.

The problem the buff books (and a few online outlets parroting their stance) have with the newly-announced ability of the Volt to supplement power with mechanical energy directly from the on-board 1.4-liter four-cylinder, is that it's no longer purely electric power driving the wheels.

This is a distinction without a difference. You can burn gasoline to spin a generator to charge the batteries to power the electric motors, or you can partially skip the middle man and send some of that gas-generated power straight to the wheels. Either way, gas is burned to turn the wheels.

We've tried to contact the Volt team to clarify whether sending enough power from the range extender to the batteries to enable pure electric highway cruising would have necessitated more expensive circuitry, more elaborate cooling, or other elements that would put the car out of its target cost range, but they're understandably swamped at the moment. We think it's a reasonable assertion, but we'll update you with the official word from GM as soon as we can.

Let's take a look at some of GM's statements that are ostensibly the source of the "lie." Inside Line cites lines like "The Chevrolet Volt is not a hybrid. It is a one-of-akind, all-electrically driven vehicle designed and engineered to operate in all climates." This statement, in light of the ability of the Volt to add direct drive from the onboard engine, isn't strictly speaking, true. But is it a lie? The Volt is all-electric at any speed for the first 40 or so miles. It's all-electric in charge-sustaining mode at speeds below 70 mph. In only one circumstance (speed-limit or higher highway driving) does it augment electric drive with mechanical. And even when the mechancial engine is kicking in some power the wheels are simultaneously being driven by the electric motors. If it's a lie, it's not one of omission, but of addition.

Jalopnik goes on to construct a quotation from Volt chief engineer with a strictness that would set even Antonin Scalia's teeth on edge. Quoting Farah saying, "you're correct that the electric motor is always powering the wheels, whereas in a typical hybrid vehicle the electric motor and the gasoline engine can power the wheels. The greatest advantage of an extended-range electric vehicle like the Volt is the increased all electric range and the significant total vehicle range combined," Jalopnik responded with "This meant that the gasoline engine was nothing more than a 'range extender' designed to charge the batteries which would allow the electric drivetrain to continue to move the car — and allow GM to claim that the Volt was something different, something new and something worthy of taxpayer dollars. It turns out that's not correct."


Actually, that is still correct. It just does something in addition to Farah's remarks.

What the Volt really is
So what is the Volt? For the first 40 miles (and every 40 miles after that, if you're in the target market sweet spot) it's a pure EV. If you want to treat it as such, it's simply a battery EV with a 40 mile range and a lot of extraneous hardware. Unlike the LEAF or any other number of battery EVs, it won't leave you stranded if you get out too far without an outlet nearby. And unlike any mass-market hybrid, you can simply charge it each night and go about your 40-miles-or-less daily business without ever dipping into the world's diminishing supply of dinosaur juice.

Instead of either the battery-only EVs or the standard/plug-in hybrids, the Volt takes a scene from the heavily-sponsored Transformers movies and becomes an EV that generates its own charge from an on-board generator. Drive it around town, it's still powered purely by the electric motors. It's still an EV, just drawing its power from its own portable grid. Remember--the grid the LEAF and all other EVs pull their power from burns a considerable bit of coal to produce that electricity, too, but you can't put a coal-fired powerplant in the back of a LEAF. Sure, the gasoline engine isn't as efficient or as clean as a powerplant, but now we're talking differences of degree, not of kind.

But imagine now that your Volt has run out of its battery power, and your return trip necessitates some highway driving. Instead of saying "no sir, charge isn't high enough for highway speeds," the system dutifully kicks in and adds a little boost from the combustion engine, allowing you to flow with traffic rather than being an eco-friendly rolling road block. Convenient, confidence-inspiring, and, by the way, something none of those other EVs can do.


Why wait until now to tell us?
So if the Volt's ability to partially drive the wheels through its on-board engine is actually a very useful feature, why did GM hide that fact? The answer lies in patent applications and corporate competitiveness. If GM had laid all its cards on the table at the outset, you can bet Toyota, Honda, Ford, and others would have been hard at work getting a similar concept built before GM could patent the design. The patent acquisition took time--understandable to anyone who knows anything about the patent process. The result? A (relatively) late-in-the-game announcement of the enhanced drive capability.

But GM almost certainly wasn't expecting this sort of negative reaction, particularly from the ostensible enthusiasts at the buff books. In fact, in my interview with Rob Peterson back in June, we touched on this very subject as rumors of a direct-drive solution for the Volt's European cousin, the Ampera, had emerged. He stated only that the Volt would operate purely in electric mode for the first 40 miles, the Volt drives at any speed without aid from the combustion engine. As for the possibility of direct drive under other circumstances, Peterson played coy due to the ongoing patent application, but stated clearly that the Volt's powertrain is a "very innovative solution," and that there is "no rush on our part to tip our hand to our competitors." He even said we could expect a good surprise or two as the Volt neared production. We think this is one of them.

Semantic sand castles
Does that mean it's not an all-electric car the rest of the time? No. It just means that in addition to being an all-electric car, it has some hybrid-like capabilities. So Chevy delivers an EV with 340 miles range and adds in a power boost to maintain highway speeds even when the battery is discharged...and the media complains about it? This does not compute.

Put another way, if you drive your LEAF toward the end of its battery range, even if you have a charger waiting at the other end of the road, it'll stick you in a speed-limited "limp home" mode. The Volt's "limp home mode" lets you drive on the freeway at the cost of a little electrical purity. The arbiters of Green Morality may cringe, but at least you'll make it home in time to get the kids to soccer practice.

The "GM lied" fanatics can build their semantic sand castles and kick down GM's own all day long, but at the end of the day, this "lie" means the Volt is more capable than any other vehicle in its class. Is a flashy headline really worth dragging what may be the best EV/hybrid/futuremobile/whatever through the mud over a case of dubitable nomenclature? Apparently, to some, it is.


http://www.thecarconnection.com/mart...press-is-wrong
GFerg is offline  
Old 10-11-10, 08:23 PM
  #249  
Sens4Miles
Lead Lap
 
Sens4Miles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 543
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by TRDFantasy
I'm not going to argue this any further, but you can continue refuse to believe the definition of a hybrid, your choice. If I were you, I would look it up in the dictionary.
You're not going to argue this any further but you'll argue it further anyway, eh? Thanks, but i certainly don't need any advice from you on where to look to understand this technology and how it differs from a traditional hybrid. And I really don't give a crap what Webster's dictionary has to say about it either

Originally Posted by TRDFantasy
That terminology never existed before. It's terminology that GM made up, which is all based around the hype they generated for the Volt.
That's because this is new technology that GM created. You seem to have a hard time accepting that fact. Yes, believe it or not, another car manufacturer other than Toyota can come up with their own ideas and their own technology. I know that's very hard for you to grasp, but believe me, it's true. I promise you.


Originally Posted by TRDFantasy
Sorry, the "correct" terminology to me is the English meaning of the word hybrid, not some "EREV" terminology that GM came up with.

With that, I leave you with the dictionary definitions of hybrid:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hybrid


So yes, according to Webster's dictionary, the Volt has two different types of components that do perform essentially the same function. Therefore it is a hybrid in my eyes, and to most other English speakers.
What other "english speakers" are you referring to?

Originally Posted by TRDFantasy
Doesn't matter how the two power sources work with each other or work within the car. The Volt has two power sources, and both sources power the car. It's a hybrid, the end.
You have a very narrow-minded way of looking at things. But after reading your posts over the years, I already know this to be the case. That's fine. If it makes you happy, call it a hybrid. Doesn't change the fact that the technology it utilizes is different than anything else out there right now. It is nothing like a Prius, Insight, Camry, Altima, Fusion, etc. But hey, you want to bunch the Volt with other cars that depend heavily on gasoline to operate? you go right ahead.

Originally Posted by TRDFantasy
Here is also a definition from Cambridge dictionary:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...british/hybrid


Finally, the World English Dictionary defines hybrid as:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hybrid
Save it.
Sens4Miles is offline  
Old 10-11-10, 08:27 PM
  #250  
LexFather
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Originally Posted by Sens4Miles
No, I meant numbers that show the Prius is more fuel-efficient than the Volt. Still waiting for those numbers from you.
.
Originally Posted by Sens4Miles


Care to elaborate on this blanket statement with some facts and numbers to support it?
Originally Posted by Sens4Miles
No, it doesn't. Do your research.
Originally Posted by Sens4Miles
You're not going to argue this any further but you'll argue it further anyway, eh? Thanks, but i certainly don't need any advice from you on where to look to understand this technology and how it differs from a traditional hybrid. And I really don't give a crap what Webster's dictionary has to say about it either


You have a very narrow-minded way of looking at things. But after reading your posts over the years, I already know this to be the case.
That's fine. If it makes you happy, call it a hybrid. Doesn't change the fact that the technology it utilizes is different than anything else out there right now. It is nothing like a Prius, Insight, Camry, Altima, Fusion, etc. But hey, you want to bunch the Volt with other cars that depend heavily on gasoline to operate? you go right ahead.



Save it.
Sens4miles please exit this thread.

Everyone you can get your posts across without the condescending jabs and tone. If there is someone you likely will not agree with and won't agree with there is an ignore feature.
 
Old 11-30-10, 07:37 AM
  #251  
MPLexus301
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (3)
 
MPLexus301's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Friend Zone
Posts: 9,044
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default EPA rates the Volt: 93 MPG-equivalent on electricity, 37 MPG gas, 60 MPG combined



Chevrolet Volt's official MPG: 60 mpg (sort of)

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The U.S. government has finally decided what fuel economy figures to put on the Chevrolet Volt, General Motors said Wednesday.

The final figure is 60 miles per gallon, but because it can run on electricity, gasoline, or a combination of both, the EPA fuel economy label is going to look a little different from the ones used on other cars.

Because of the complexity of how the Volt operates, the fuel economy label will contain a host of other numbers so consumers can at least try to figure out what their own fuel economy will actually be.

Hint: It probably won't be 60 mpg.

The Volt, according to a preliminary Environmental Protection Agency label presented by GM, will get an estimated 93 miles per "gallon-equivalent" when driving under electric power only, 37 miles per gallon when burning gasoline and, over the long term, is estimated to get 60 miles per gallon in combined gasoline-powered and electric-powered driving.

One "gallon-equivalent" of electricity is the amount of energy one gallon of gasoline would contain. For example, the EPA recently rated the electric-only Nissan Leaf at 99 "miles per gallon equivalent."

According to the EPA label, the Volt can drive an estimated 35 miles on electricity stored in its battery before a gasoline engine comes on.

The 60 mpg figure, however, combines the miles-per-gallon figure, when running on only gasoline, and miles-per "gallon equivalent" number, when running on only electricity. Depending on how and how much they drive, consumers could actually be using considerably less gasoline than the 60 mpg figure would indicate.

The puzzle of how to rate the Volt's fuel economy has been especially difficult and the car's real-world fuel economy will vary enormously from driver to driver.

A driver who only commutes a few miles a day could use no gasoline at all for weeks or months, provided the car's battery is always recharged before running down. Whereas a driver that tends to do more long-haul driving would likely burn more gasoline.

GM executives said the label that will appear on early versions of the Chevrolet Volt is preliminary. The way the figures are displayed on the label may change in the future.
http://money.cnn.com/2010/11/24/auto...on=money_autos
MPLexus301 is offline  
Old 11-30-10, 07:42 AM
  #252  
PhilipMSPT
Cycle Savant
iTrader: (5)
 
PhilipMSPT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: In rehab...
Posts: 21,527
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

The new rating system is confusing for now, but it's going to be more prominent in the near future.

The Volt is a good way to exhibit this new methodology. It's the benchmark for now.

I would love to see how the EV Prius and Leaf will compare. For now, the Prius still looks good because it does 50mpg combined on gas alone, compared to the Volt's 60mpg combined.

Also, the Prius is near half the price of the Volt. Yes, the Volt will have many incentives in the near future, but as soon as that goes away, Chevy needs to make the Volt less expensive. GM's work is far from over with this car...
PhilipMSPT is offline  
Old 11-30-10, 09:24 AM
  #253  
bnizzle87
Lexus Fanatic
 
bnizzle87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 5,595
Received 60 Likes on 51 Posts
Default

it's true that the volt is overpriced as is, but with those incentives, it makes it plausible to buy one now. as PhilipMSPT said, incentives are eventually going to to end. i'd like to what the current prius or even the prius ev's epa comparison sheet looks like. but the more info on doors for consumers to look at is great, especially the charging time and miles driven between charges.
bnizzle87 is offline  
Old 11-30-10, 11:21 AM
  #254  
-J-P-L-
Lexus Fanatic
 
-J-P-L-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 7,864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

It officially rolls off the assembly line today.

Saw a report that shows that GM is only making $1K off each unit. That's very, very low for a $41K car. Yes, people say it's "overpriced", but really, it just costs too much to build. Actual cost to build = $40,000.

The reality is, is that all other cars are "overpriced" in terms of profit margins in comparison to the Volt.
Companies make huge profits on SUVs, trucks, and high end cars. A $1K profit in any other auto context is considered unacceptable and usually terms for killing a product line.

That said, I originally heard that GM was going to willingly lose money on each Volt as did Toyota on the early Prius's. So $1K is better in that sense.
-J-P-L- is offline  
Old 11-30-10, 11:58 AM
  #255  
-J-P-L-
Lexus Fanatic
 
-J-P-L-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 7,864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

To the mod that merged MPLexus301's new thread which he titled with what has now become the new thread title, shouldn't it have remained the original title that Gferg named it - "Chevy Volt..."?

I imagine that is what was intended. The EPA title isn't fitting for the big Volt thread.



-J-P-L- is offline  


Quick Reply: EPA rates the Volt: 93 MPG-equivalent on electricity, 37 MPG gas, 60 MPG combined



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:19 PM.