EPA rates the Volt: 93 MPG-equivalent on electricity, 37 MPG gas, 60 MPG combined
#106
The Volt and the Prius cannot be compared. The Prius runs on gasoline AND electricity, but MOSTLY gasoline. The ICE shuts off at very low speeds only, as in slow city driving. Contrary to popular belief, the Prius runs on gasoline *most* of the time. The electric motors in the prius run very rarely by themselves. Anyone that own a Prius can tell you that. The range of the prius with just the electric motors is something like 5 or 6 miles before the engine starts up to charge the batteries. All at low speeds only. On the highway, the Prius's ICE is running 100% of the time.
The Volt runs on electricity ONLY. it does not use a gasoline engine to power the car. At all speeds, the Volt is running on electricty only. It has no other option. The ICE onboard the Volt does nothing but charge the battery pack.
The Volt travels down the highway at 60, 70, 80 MPH on electricty only, at up to 40 miles at a time,(without the engine starting) which is something the Prius cannot do. With a full tank and a full charge the volt is said to get between 60 and 75 MPG, also, something the prius can't do.
The Volt is revolutionary because it's the first car of it's kind that runs 100% on electricity, and, is self charging.
The Volt runs on electricity ONLY. it does not use a gasoline engine to power the car. At all speeds, the Volt is running on electricty only. It has no other option. The ICE onboard the Volt does nothing but charge the battery pack.
The Volt travels down the highway at 60, 70, 80 MPH on electricty only, at up to 40 miles at a time,(without the engine starting) which is something the Prius cannot do. With a full tank and a full charge the volt is said to get between 60 and 75 MPG, also, something the prius can't do.
The Volt is revolutionary because it's the first car of it's kind that runs 100% on electricity, and, is self charging.
You are wrong on every point you make.
- Prius can shut ICE at any speed, at any time. It happens almost every time you take foot of the gas pedal even at 100 mph. It is big part of the gas savings.
- Prius can only go up to 2 miles (or less) on electricity alone. Prius has 1.3 kw battery, Volt has 16kw battery. Thats huge difference. If Prius could go 5-6 miles on electricity, heh, that would be f. awesome.
Volt is going to burn petrol in order to turn its wheels when out of electricity. You can call it "self charging", i will just add that it burns fuel while it "self charges".
Volt is not first car that runs 100% on electricity - LOL. GM EV-1, RAV4 EV and countless others (including cars on the market right now, by small manufacturers).
And Volt, due to its design, will actually have lower mpg than current hybrids when out of electricity due to less effective drivetrain where ICE powers the batteries and batteries power motors (less efficient, more powerloss).
And of course, we are talking about Gen 2 Prius. Gen 3 Prius is coming out within half an year, 1.5 years before Volt, as well as other Toyota hybrids (including one using lithium ion batteries). It likely have bigger and more efficient batteries and better mpg. It wil also have plugin version, but so far, according to what Toyota officials say, they are looking at 8-10 miles effective range.
Volt is no more revolutionary than GS450h, LS600h, Tesla Roadster and similar cars. Volt changes nothing. Car that is going to be built in 30,000 examples in 2011, for 35k-40k, at loss, will not change pretty much anything.
Revolutionary would be to build vehicle for 20k-25k (Camry price, Camry interior size), which has space for family of 5, and effective electric range of 10-15 miles. Whoever does that, for that price, will have revolutionary vehicle on hand. That is the car that changes the industry.
According to experts, that wont happen at least until 2015, when batteries become affordable enough for that.
#107
When a new anything is planned, some kind of production volume forecast has to be made. There's nothing saying that GM can't make more. They, nor you, nor anyone knows what actual demand will be.
You guys would probably still be critical if GM said they were going to make 300,000 in year one.
You guys would probably still be critical if GM said they were going to make 300,000 in year one.
#108
Production volume doesn't make something revolutionary. A Camry isn't revolutionary despite being produced in vast quantities.
No Toyota ISN'T. You keep trying to equate the Prius with the Volt but they're not the same. The Prius isn't a plug-in and can run on electricity alone for barely any distance.
But I'm know I'm wasting my typing to you, as Toyota can do no wrong and GM can do no right.
No Toyota ISN'T. You keep trying to equate the Prius with the Volt but they're not the same. The Prius isn't a plug-in and can run on electricity alone for barely any distance.
But I'm know I'm wasting my typing to you, as Toyota can do no wrong and GM can do no right.
I remember when GM promised their hybrids in 2004 and then delayed to 2006 and then 2008. Now they make 1,000 per month. Remembering all their previous PR's, gives different perspective to what Volt is.
Volt and Prius and very similar vehicles. 3rd gen Prius will have plugin option, probably before Volt does. They will be directly comperable vehicles.
Funny thing is that both Volt and Prius, especially plugin versions, make a lot more sense in Europe where they sell a lot less than in USA. People here drive less miles per day and our electricity comes from cleaner sources. In USA, from enviromentalist perspective, plugins are not that better than normal petrol vehicles, because at nightime, almost all electricity in USA is powered by dirty coal because Nuclear and Hydro plants can be shut down when electricity is not needed and coal plants can not.
I am just saying that for something to be revolutionary, it has to be accessible by the masses, not elite. Hence it would have to be the car that replaces the Camry - the best selling car class in the USA (Accord, Malibu, etc).
But hey, I might be wrong. This might not be just PR from GM, they might be serious and they might change the world as we know it. Lets see what happens - in 26 months from now. I might be Toyota guy, but if GM builds revolutionary vehicle, I will be first to convert.
#109
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
But hey, I might be wrong. This might not be just PR from GM, they might be serious and they might change the world as we know it. Lets see what happens - in 26 months from now. I might be Toyota guy, but if GM builds revolutionary vehicle, I will be first to convert.
#110
Pole Position
You are wrong on every point you make.
- Prius can shut ICE at any speed, at any time. It happens almost every time you take foot of the gas pedal even at 100 mph. It is big part of the gas savings.
- Prius can only go up to 2 miles (or less) on electricity alone. Prius has 1.3 kw battery, Volt has 16kw battery. Thats huge difference. If Prius could go 5-6 miles on electricity, heh, that would be f. awesome.
Volt is going to burn petrol in order to turn its wheels when out of electricity. You can call it "self charging", i will just add that it burns fuel while it "self charges".
Volt is not first car that runs 100% on electricity - LOL. GM EV-1, RAV4 EV and countless others (including cars on the market right now, by small manufacturers).
And Volt, due to its design, will actually have lower mpg than current hybrids when out of electricity due to less effective drivetrain where ICE powers the batteries and batteries power motors (less efficient, more powerloss).
And of course, we are talking about Gen 2 Prius. Gen 3 Prius is coming out within half an year, 1.5 years before Volt, as well as other Toyota hybrids (including one using lithium ion batteries). It likely have bigger and more efficient batteries and better mpg. It wil also have plugin version, but so far, according to what Toyota officials say, they are looking at 8-10 miles effective range.
Volt is no more revolutionary than GS450h, LS600h, Tesla Roadster and similar cars. Volt changes nothing. Car that is going to be built in 30,000 examples in 2011, for 35k-40k, at loss, will not change pretty much anything.
Revolutionary would be to build vehicle for 20k-25k (Camry price, Camry interior size), which has space for family of 5, and effective electric range of 10-15 miles. Whoever does that, for that price, will have revolutionary vehicle on hand. That is the car that changes the industry.
According to experts, that wont happen at least until 2015, when batteries become affordable enough for that.
- Prius can shut ICE at any speed, at any time. It happens almost every time you take foot of the gas pedal even at 100 mph. It is big part of the gas savings.
- Prius can only go up to 2 miles (or less) on electricity alone. Prius has 1.3 kw battery, Volt has 16kw battery. Thats huge difference. If Prius could go 5-6 miles on electricity, heh, that would be f. awesome.
Volt is going to burn petrol in order to turn its wheels when out of electricity. You can call it "self charging", i will just add that it burns fuel while it "self charges".
Volt is not first car that runs 100% on electricity - LOL. GM EV-1, RAV4 EV and countless others (including cars on the market right now, by small manufacturers).
And Volt, due to its design, will actually have lower mpg than current hybrids when out of electricity due to less effective drivetrain where ICE powers the batteries and batteries power motors (less efficient, more powerloss).
And of course, we are talking about Gen 2 Prius. Gen 3 Prius is coming out within half an year, 1.5 years before Volt, as well as other Toyota hybrids (including one using lithium ion batteries). It likely have bigger and more efficient batteries and better mpg. It wil also have plugin version, but so far, according to what Toyota officials say, they are looking at 8-10 miles effective range.
Volt is no more revolutionary than GS450h, LS600h, Tesla Roadster and similar cars. Volt changes nothing. Car that is going to be built in 30,000 examples in 2011, for 35k-40k, at loss, will not change pretty much anything.
Revolutionary would be to build vehicle for 20k-25k (Camry price, Camry interior size), which has space for family of 5, and effective electric range of 10-15 miles. Whoever does that, for that price, will have revolutionary vehicle on hand. That is the car that changes the industry.
According to experts, that wont happen at least until 2015, when batteries become affordable enough for that.
Also, I never said the Volt was the first 100% electric car. My quote was "it's the first car of it's kind that runs 100% on electricity, and, is self charging." IOW, it is the first and only 100% electric car that is fully self sufficient, meaning, it never needs to be plugged in. The Prius never needs to be plugged in either, but it is also powered by its ICE.
Like you said, we know nothing of its real world numbers. We'll have to wait and see. However, I think a 3 cylinder engine, with its only load being a generator should be pretty fuel efficient, don't you?
#111
Lexus Champion
The Volt is no more revolutionary than the GS450h and LS600h??? LOL!
Right. How far do those cars go on zero gas? Zero miles. Volt will go 40.
Sounds pretty revolutionary to me.
One car offers owners the chance to use ZERO gas in their commutes. The other cars offer their owners a small increase in mileage and power for a very premium price.
The Tesla roadster could also be very revolutionary if they bring costs down and prove their reliability and availability since they're an unknown company with no real dealer network.
BTW... Volt isn't 26 months away.. its first (limited) release is in 15 months.
Right. How far do those cars go on zero gas? Zero miles. Volt will go 40.
Sounds pretty revolutionary to me.
One car offers owners the chance to use ZERO gas in their commutes. The other cars offer their owners a small increase in mileage and power for a very premium price.
The Tesla roadster could also be very revolutionary if they bring costs down and prove their reliability and availability since they're an unknown company with no real dealer network.
BTW... Volt isn't 26 months away.. its first (limited) release is in 15 months.
#112
Lexus Fanatic
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#113
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Can you clarify?
#114
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
What happens if you pull into work after your 40 mile trip and you park your car?
There goes your 40 mile range the batteries are drained, the ICE engine didn't kick in long enough to charge your batteries, you're at work and can't plug in your Volt. Does the engine stay on even after you've left your car to park to charge the batteries?
There goes your 40 mile range the batteries are drained, the ICE engine didn't kick in long enough to charge your batteries, you're at work and can't plug in your Volt. Does the engine stay on even after you've left your car to park to charge the batteries?
#115
Pole Position
What happens if you pull into work after your 40 mile trip and you park your car?
There goes your 40 mile range the batteries are drained, the ICE engine didn't kick in long enough to charge your batteries, you're at work and can't plug in your Volt. Does the engine stay on even after you've left your car to park to charge the batteries?
There goes your 40 mile range the batteries are drained, the ICE engine didn't kick in long enough to charge your batteries, you're at work and can't plug in your Volt. Does the engine stay on even after you've left your car to park to charge the batteries?
#116
Guest
Posts: n/a
The Volt is no more revolutionary than the GS450h and LS600h??? LOL!
Right. How far do those cars go on zero gas? Zero miles. Volt will go 40.
Sounds pretty revolutionary to me.
One car offers owners the chance to use ZERO gas in their commutes. The other cars offer their owners a small increase in mileage and power for a very premium price.
The Tesla roadster could also be very revolutionary if they bring costs down and prove their reliability and availability since they're an unknown company with no real dealer network.
BTW... Volt isn't 26 months away.. its first (limited) release is in 15 months.
Right. How far do those cars go on zero gas? Zero miles. Volt will go 40.
Sounds pretty revolutionary to me.
One car offers owners the chance to use ZERO gas in their commutes. The other cars offer their owners a small increase in mileage and power for a very premium price.
The Tesla roadster could also be very revolutionary if they bring costs down and prove their reliability and availability since they're an unknown company with no real dealer network.
BTW... Volt isn't 26 months away.. its first (limited) release is in 15 months.
It might be revolutionary b/c people can actually afford it and use it, it seats 4 with a trunk.
#117
What happens if you pull into work after your 40 mile trip and you park your car?
There goes your 40 mile range the batteries are drained, the ICE engine didn't kick in long enough to charge your batteries, you're at work and can't plug in your Volt. Does the engine stay on even after you've left your car to park to charge the batteries?
There goes your 40 mile range the batteries are drained, the ICE engine didn't kick in long enough to charge your batteries, you're at work and can't plug in your Volt. Does the engine stay on even after you've left your car to park to charge the batteries?
#118
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Well I assume the car would have enough charge left in it to kick up the engine to start charging or would have a "reserve" left for this type of situation. The reserve would need to have enough battery in it for traveling long enough for the batteries to be charged by the engine.
#119
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
You come back to your car, and the battery is still pretty much dead. You turn on the car, the engine kicks on at this time. Do you sit there til the battery charges enough for you to drive?
#120
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
The ICE starter battery is likely separate from the electric motor batteries so the ICE can always run. If you drove 40 miles on electric to work and the batteries are thus drained, it would mean you'd just be using the gas engine most of the way home (depending on environment) and I say most and not all because driving home would recharge the electric motor batteries some.
Doesn't matter whether it's 4, 40, or 400 miles electric range, the issue is the same.
Doesn't matter whether it's 4, 40, or 400 miles electric range, the issue is the same.