spwolf

You are wrong on every point you make.

- Prius can shut ICE at any speed, at any time. It happens almost every time you take foot of the gas pedal even at 100 mph. It is big part of the gas savings.
- Prius can only go up to 2 miles (or less) on electricity alone. Prius has 1.3 kw battery, Volt has 16kw battery. Thats huge difference. If Prius could go 5-6 miles on electricity, heh, that would be f. awesome.

Volt is going to burn petrol in order to turn its wheels when out of electricity. You can call it "self charging", i will just add that it burns fuel while it "self charges".

Volt is not first car that runs 100% on electricity - LOL. GM EV-1, RAV4 EV and countless others (including cars on the market right now, by small manufacturers).

And Volt, due to its design, will actually have lower mpg than current hybrids when out of electricity due to less effective drivetrain where ICE powers the batteries and batteries power motors (less efficient, more powerloss).

And of course, we are talking about Gen 2 Prius. Gen 3 Prius is coming out within half an year, 1.5 years before Volt, as well as other Toyota hybrids (including one using lithium ion batteries). It likely have bigger and more efficient batteries and better mpg. It wil also have plugin version, but so far, according to what Toyota officials say, they are looking at 8-10 miles effective range.

Volt is no more revolutionary than GS450h, LS600h, Tesla Roadster and similar cars. Volt changes nothing. Car that is going to be built in 30,000 examples in 2011, for 35k-40k, at loss, will not change pretty much anything.


Revolutionary would be to build vehicle for 20k-25k (Camry price, Camry interior size), which has space for family of 5, and effective electric range of 10-15 miles. Whoever does that, for that price, will have revolutionary vehicle on hand. That is the car that changes the industry.

According to experts, that wont happen at least until 2015, when batteries become affordable enough for that.

spwolf

since GM is sourcing batteries from A123 and LG, there is certainly no way for them to get more whenever they want. Factories need to be build and huge investments need to be made. Otherwise Prius would not be in short supply right now.

spwolf

I have been following the industry for long time, especially when it comes to hybrids.

I remember when GM promised their hybrids in 2004 and then delayed to 2006 and then 2008. Now they make 1,000 per month. Remembering all their previous PR's, gives different perspective to what Volt is.

Volt and Prius and very similar vehicles. 3rd gen Prius will have plugin option, probably before Volt does. They will be directly comperable vehicles.

Funny thing is that both Volt and Prius, especially plugin versions, make a lot more sense in Europe where they sell a lot less than in USA. People here drive less miles per day and our electricity comes from cleaner sources. In USA, from enviromentalist perspective, plugins are not that better than normal petrol vehicles, because at nightime, almost all electricity in USA is powered by dirty coal because Nuclear and Hydro plants can be shut down when electricity is not needed and coal plants can not.

I am just saying that for something to be revolutionary, it has to be accessible by the masses, not elite. Hence it would have to be the car that replaces the Camry - the best selling car class in the USA (Accord, Malibu, etc).

But hey, I might be wrong. This might not be just PR from GM, they might be serious and they might change the world as we know it. Lets see what happens - in 26 months from now. I might be Toyota guy, but if GM builds revolutionary vehicle, I will be first to convert.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

I think Toyota has already said the next gen Prius will not have Lithium Ion initially. That's LAME. I have no interest in a hybrid with heavy and huge NiMH batteries.

Hey, I think it's pathetic that GM is doing so much PR on a vehicle that won't be available until more than 2 years from now so I'm not blindly supporting GM, I'm just saying we should wait and see a bit instead of just writing off the Volt.

IS350jet

It's automatically understood that the Prius shuts off the engine for coasting and braking, at any speed. That's not what I was saying, and you know that. The fact is, most people believe the Prius is mostly electric and that's not the case. The ICE is running most of the time "while powering the car".

Also, I never said the Volt was the first 100% electric car. My quote was "it's the first car of it's kind that runs 100% on electricity, and, is self charging." IOW, it is the first and only 100% electric car that is fully self sufficient, meaning, it never needs to be plugged in. The Prius never needs to be plugged in either, but it is also powered by its ICE.

Like you said, we know nothing of its real world numbers. We'll have to wait and see. However, I think a 3 cylinder engine, with its only load being a generator should be pretty fuel efficient, don't you?

Threxx

The Volt is no more revolutionary than the GS450h and LS600h??? LOL!

Right. How far do those cars go on zero gas? Zero miles. Volt will go 40.

Sounds pretty revolutionary to me.

One car offers owners the chance to use ZERO gas in their commutes. The other cars offer their owners a small increase in mileage and power for a very premium price.

The Tesla roadster could also be very revolutionary if they bring costs down and prove their reliability and availability since they're an unknown company with no real dealer network.

BTW... Volt isn't 26 months away.. its first (limited) release is in 15 months.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Good to hear. I think they need to do everything possible to accelerate that. I would seriously consider a Volt given that so many of my trips are less than 40 mi. round trip.

-J-P-L-

Where did you hear this? Last week, Bob Lutz himself said that NO ONE will get a Volt before November 2010. Not even celebrities. There are no early limited releases planned.

Can you clarify?

Koma

iTrader: (3)

What happens if you pull into work after your 40 mile trip and you park your car?
There goes your 40 mile range the batteries are drained, the ICE engine didn't kick in long enough to charge your batteries, you're at work and can't plug in your Volt. Does the engine stay on even after you've left your car to park to charge the batteries?

IS350jet

That is one question I'd like the answer to. I would say probably not because GM would have no way of knowing where the car would be parked while charging. An unattended running engine would be pretty unsafe, I would think, especially in an enclosed garage.

LexFather

I don't think its revolutionary b/c this has been done before. Doesn't the Tesla run on electric only already? The EV1?

It might be revolutionary b/c people can actually afford it and use it, it seats 4 with a trunk.

SLegacy99

Why would it remain on? It can just turn on if need be when your start the car again.

Koma

iTrader: (3)

Well I assume the car would have enough charge left in it to kick up the engine to start charging or would have a "reserve" left for this type of situation. The reserve would need to have enough battery in it for traveling long enough for the batteries to be charged by the engine.

Koma

iTrader: (3)

Well say if the battery is pretty much run out of it's battery charge but not enough for the engine to kick in before you park.
You come back to your car, and the battery is still pretty much dead. You turn on the car, the engine kicks on at this time. Do you sit there til the battery charges enough for you to drive?

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

The ICE starter battery is likely separate from the electric motor batteries so the ICE can always run. If you drove 40 miles on electric to work and the batteries are thus drained, it would mean you'd just be using the gas engine most of the way home (depending on environment) and I say most and not all because driving home would recharge the electric motor batteries some.

Doesn't matter whether it's 4, 40, or 400 miles electric range, the issue is the same.