Statement: Toyota Responds to the Disclosure of the Saylor Settlement
12-24-10, 01:41 PM
#16
In Japan, the driver would have been found criminally negligent for his incompetence. A driving license in Japan is issued to a "professional" and all the rights and responsibilities of being a professional driver follow.
In Europe, he would also likely be found at fault for failing to take reasonable measures to disable the car's ability to accelerate.
In the US, no individual bears any responsibility for anything because we're all victims and deserve to have the wealth redistributed to us when we do something completely idiotic.
I agree the driver was incompetent. At the same time, the dealership created an unnecessarily dangerous situation by installing the wrong part in the car. Had it been a part under the hood causing the throttle to stick open, no one would be blaming anyone but the dealer even if the driver was too panicked to put the transmission in neutral. There is a reason why no dealer will fix a component they can replace with a new one even if fixing the part is more economical - an attorney can easily convince a US jury a fix to a component is not reliable and caused a problem which would not have existed had they replaced the entire component. And that's why this is such a mess legally. The driver was incompetent despite years of training, the dealership was incompetent despite a number of TSIBs indicating improper floor mats can cause unintended acceleration, and because the family all died and it made national headlines, Lexus and the dealership are under the microscope.
I think it's pretty stupid. But no doubt we'll see the family get paid for wrongful death. This is the US after all.
In Europe, he would also likely be found at fault for failing to take reasonable measures to disable the car's ability to accelerate.
In the US, no individual bears any responsibility for anything because we're all victims and deserve to have the wealth redistributed to us when we do something completely idiotic.
I agree the driver was incompetent. At the same time, the dealership created an unnecessarily dangerous situation by installing the wrong part in the car. Had it been a part under the hood causing the throttle to stick open, no one would be blaming anyone but the dealer even if the driver was too panicked to put the transmission in neutral. There is a reason why no dealer will fix a component they can replace with a new one even if fixing the part is more economical - an attorney can easily convince a US jury a fix to a component is not reliable and caused a problem which would not have existed had they replaced the entire component. And that's why this is such a mess legally. The driver was incompetent despite years of training, the dealership was incompetent despite a number of TSIBs indicating improper floor mats can cause unintended acceleration, and because the family all died and it made national headlines, Lexus and the dealership are under the microscope.
I think it's pretty stupid. But no doubt we'll see the family get paid for wrongful death. This is the US after all.
You can read my post on the first page of the original ES350 crash test. https://www.clublexus.com/forums/4809935-post7.html
Pretty much exactly what you described, and I was still able to react and do exactly what needed to be done instead of panicking. And I didnt even have a drivers license back then. Sometimes all it takes is a bit of common sense.
12-26-10, 07:28 AM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 7,864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't believe Toyota had to dump another $10M on top of the billions they've lost so far, because of the clear fault of a dealership and a driver who did not know the steps of stopping a car even with a stuck pedal. I assume this cop was in pure panic mode, because anyone "trained" or at all a good driver who knows how cars work would have quickly thew it in neutral and even shut the car off. Even pulling the mat back would have been one of my initial reactions. In fact, I've done it many times while driving cars with unsecured mats.
12-26-10, 10:50 AM
#19
Lexus Fanatic
The driver was extremely competent. As reviewed by the 911 call, the driver is a trained police officer knowledgeable of how to maneuver and handle a car. Because of the mat, he was physically unable to control the car. So, it was not his competence; it was a foreign potentially-dangerous item placed by the dealership.
The foreign object prevented him from using his competence and skill to avoid an accident.
The foreign object prevented him from using his competence and skill to avoid an accident.
12-26-10, 11:12 AM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
12-26-10, 11:12 AM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
12-26-10, 11:28 AM
#23
To add to my statement:
Any competent driver knows that you can do two things:
1. Shift to neutral
2. use the E-brake.
Now Toyota has a real problem if #1 was applied, and did not work. Which means the computer in the car has a bug to stay in gear, with gas at full throttle even when you shift to neutral. Scary. And the explanation of a $10 million settlement from Toyota when it was an apparent Bob Baker Lexus fault.
Any competent driver knows that you can do two things:
1. Shift to neutral
2. use the E-brake.
Now Toyota has a real problem if #1 was applied, and did not work. Which means the computer in the car has a bug to stay in gear, with gas at full throttle even when you shift to neutral. Scary. And the explanation of a $10 million settlement from Toyota when it was an apparent Bob Baker Lexus fault.
12-26-10, 04:56 PM
#24
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 7,864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12-26-10, 10:23 PM
#26
Lexus Fanatic
They can afford it, wisely chose to settle rather than prolonging even more expensive negative press impact. Settlement is cost of doing business with liability recorded well before settlement.
12-27-10, 03:19 AM
#27
driver incompetence aside (not shifting into neutral is really his fault), it is definitely dealer error.... ES350 has much smaller all weather mats than RX SUV, and this could stick pedal in any car... not only that, but previous customer warned them of this issue yet dealer just ignored it.
Family will win big against the dealer, as they should.
Family will win big against the dealer, as they should.
12-27-10, 03:28 AM
#28
I don't know the entire situation here, but from what I do know about it, a quick shift into neutral would have probably solved the problem, at least for a few seconds. But the question arises what would have happened when the engine red-lined.....some vehicles have an automatic fuel cut-off when the engine red-lines. If the engine stalls from lack of fuel, your power-steering goes (if the car has a traditional hydraulic pump), and you only have a small limited vaccum-reserve for the power-brakes....usually one or two quick applications. The manually-operated emergency brake will help some, but steering and stopping a car that has lost its power-assist is often much tougher than you think......it is not simply comparable to non-power steering (like on a Miata) or non-power brakes, but often takes a lot more effort.
Whoever heard the tape of the 911 call realizes that they were completely in panic and out of their mind, they could not control the situation anymore and they were praying and screaming... in panic people do not think straight.
But nevertheless, it is still dealer error... it is like them not securing the wheel to the car and then when it flies off, expecting from "experienced" driver to handle situation perfectly. That might OR might not happen.
12-27-10, 06:44 AM
#29
Pole Position
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Gojirra99
Car Chat
18
09-28-07 01:55 PM
gbpackers4
GS - 2nd Gen (1998-2005)
12
05-16-06 10:27 PM
