*Batman*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nürburgring_lap_times

Both Lexus and Nissan eclipse BMW at the Nurburgring.

dunnojack

so, did they shut up? or are they still blabbering?

vipism

Hello, is nurburgring one of the most stringent courses ? I'm not familiar with it.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Lexus and Nissan both have proper super cars. BMW ///M cars are not much more than overclocked and unrealiable versions of production cars, so you can't really expect them to compete at the same level.

With that being said, BMW has a better variety of sporty cars and coupes that are affordable to more people and a lot more practical for daily use.

LexFather

You know whats funny outside the M3 coupe BMW coupes usually get their asses whooped in reviews and on the track compared to the competition. The last M5 no longer dominated like it used to. The M6 never was truly well received. The Z8 looks great but is a GT. The M1 is a mixed bag but historic car.

The LFA and GTR obliterate any production BMW, ever. I think that is why they are rushing to build their hybrid/electric whatever concept car.

I still love BMW and know they build amazing vehicles. However its funny to think Lexus and Nissan at their best out perform the best BMW

syzygy

You know I pity the people who show an almost cult-like fanaticism about a certain car brand. BMW especially appears to suffer from this tragedy the most.

There are so many individuals who legitimately believe that BMW is so far ahead of the game relative to its competitors that they automatically shut themselves off from even considering competing brands. I mean really, how sad is that?

Fortunately, I have the luxury and privilege of being open-minded enough to consider all comparable brands when deciding to purchase a vehicle. That's really a powerful thing.

My current car, the IS350, is among the best I've ever owned and it provides strong rationale for getting into an IS-F in the future. That said, being free from any sort of rabid fanboy-ism, I'd honestly say that a comparable car from a competing brand - the C63 AMG - has piqued my interest slightly more and is probably the front runner in the ISF/M3/C63AMG/RS4 "race," and that's totally fine. What a beautiful thing to drive a Lexus IS350, get into a Mercedes C63 AMG later on in life, switch to an Audi RS whatever even later, and who knows, maybe come back full circle to try out future Lexus products (GS-F?). Variety is truly the spice of life. It's all about considering your options. I don't arbitrarily disregard Mercedes or BMW or Nissan (GT-R is an amazing vehicle!) products just because I own a Lexus.

*Batman*

Still blabbering. Making comments like Infinitis are all Nissans. No facts or logic.

I've also found that Bimmerfest has a lot more people in traditional professions, rather than self-made entrepreneurs or business people. So they are much more brand conscious than objective to studying and experiencing the different choices on the market. Hope this doesn't offend anyone - just a perception.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Most of the BMW guys that act the way you guys are describing aren't true car enthusiasts. Most of them are a bunch of teenagers (or young adults with teenage mindsets) who's parents bought/leased their vehicle for them. This doesn't apply only to BMW, but it does seem sometimes that BMW attracts a large amount of douches that think a base 328 is some kind of a super car

A true enthusiast who actually knows a thing or two about cars, mechanicals, knows how to drive, and pays for his own car will never act like that. Every car maker and model has their strengths and weaknesses.

DustinV

www.bmwblog.com

^Warning: Absolute BMW fanboy territory...^

SNiiP3R

iTrader: (3)

Though the dog may bark the caravan moves on

rdgdawg

I am going to give BMW props because, again, hanging out out Road America, speaking to several mechanics and with no prompting, when I asked what street/DD would you take to a track to run all day with no worries as to being able to stand the pounding, all but one chose the M3... the lone vote (out of about 15 I spoke to over 2 days) was for the Z06 Corvette...

<VENOM>

The BMW fanbois probably realized that included maintenance is a scam

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i agree with this one the most. lexus and nissan both have superb cars running very front, but overall bmw has wider variety of sport cars to choose from. looking at the isf as the lower bound, there's 1 lexus above (lfa) and couple of gtr (same car, different years), and there are bunch of bmw.

though i am not sure if i agree with the overclocked and unreliable version all m cars are fully redesigned and more than 90% of the parts aren't the same as the generic ones, and my m3 has been more reliable than my gs350 in terms of dealer visit

yup, you see tons of kids who got their cars only because their parents blindly purchase those cars for them, they don't even have an idea of money and values. i think that's always the biggest problem.

but i also have to say, after reading bmw forums for almost 2 yrs (not as often as CL), there are quite a few true car enthusiasts. they respect all cars and not biased against bmw. they don't just know cars, they work on them and they are awesome drivers. on that, i have to say, i probably see more of those people on bmw forums than lexus forums

CDNROCKIES

Part of this is that they have more models that cater to the enthusiast, have been around longer, and sell at a pretty good clip. I also agree that there are many members on the BMW forums that have under the hood experience and enthusiasts that know a great deal of performance. (I probably spend an equal amount of time now between here and the BMW forums).

However, I can't begin to disagree more (in a respectful way ) that they are respectfull of other brands and not excessively brand biased towards BMW. The BMW forums are filled with a disproportionate number of douchebag fanbois compared to any forum for MB, Lexus or Porsche. The ridiculousness that goes on is mindboggling.

There's actually a current thread discussing "What brand do you respect but could never see yourself buying?".....the number of jackasses that have mentioned Porsche and MB as cars they'd never consider is laughable.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

oh hahhaa, i never ever said bmw forums don't have fanboys, in fact there are tons of them. i can't stand them most of the time that's why i hardly post i am just saying there are always exceptions