sojah

iTrader: (1)

or go the advertising way of the ct200 and go for mean green.

spwolf

if your worldwide is Korea and USA, then yes... but realistically no... I would think >90% of those volumes are in Korea, where due to import taxes, there isnt much competition from foreign brands.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

no, i don't think that's it. i think fans of other brands have different priorities and biases and don't appreciate as much the great things that lexus offers.

well that's a hypothetical, because i'd be very surprised if lexus goes 'completely sporty'. but seriously, you and i have both seen the 'progress' and it's been a little haphazard to say the least.

the sc was the first 'sporty' lexus but the suspension was too soft. the gs400 came out with class leading power and an unbelievably smooth powertrain, but again the suspension was borderline dangerous with that much power. l-tuned has some good parts but that was the stealthiest marketing campaign ever the 1IS (aka Altezza) was a neat push toward a younger market, but not exactly a luxury car! look at one today, it's not really much different than an integra then the IS-F comes out of nowhere (holy crap, but it whipsawed from the refined smooth to almost a muscle-car). then f-sport parts haven't exactly lit things up either. the LFA is off the charts amazing, but COMPLETELY out of character for lexus and so high end i believe its effect on the brand will be basically nothing.

the hybrids were pushed for performance, not economy (odd), nor even refinement (crazy not to), and while definitely potent, not fully realized thus far as sporty (your car comes closest).

i just think the 'strategy' has been poor, but through the fumbling and bumbling, they are making progress, but reputations change slowly, and even slower if the branding/positioning/execution is all over the map.

i think it's 'dark side of green'

mmarshall

I'm not sure I agree. I don't see anything cast in stone that says that a car with some power has to have stiff underpinnnings. Neither the 1Gen SC or GS, even in the V8 versions, was noted for poor handling or a higher-than-normal accident rate. Suspensions/tires/underpinnings got stiffer because of the obsession in today's auto-press and among some enthusiasts with ever-more-track-like handling and skidpad/slalom figures, not necessarily because of increased power.

(That, BTW, is why Kia, unlike many other manufacturers, allows you, if desired, to get the new Turbo Optima (in the EX version) without the Sport-suspension. In fact, the Sport suspension is not even available with the EX Turbo, and standard on the SX Turbo. Kia recognizes that stiffer underpinnings aren't necessarily needed with more power.

chikoo

I need help...seriously.

When I read the sentence above, this is what I read :


no, i don't think that's it. i think fans of other brands have different panties and bras and don't appreciate as much the great things that lexus offers.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

Yes sir, you need help

You are on the wrong site too, you need to be on a girl's site, not a car's site

Nothing wrong with your interest though........that is my only other interest other then cars

Dema

Although Equus looks better for ,e at least on paper (didn't have a chance to drive it), the following things needed to take in consideration
1 Equus isn't cheaper, if you try lease it, then you will find out bigger payments for Equus. Why? Obviously Hyundai deprecates really fast
2 Ages faster, people reported it starts rattling after 6 months
3 Equus is bigger, so not easy to park in narrow places and also requires bigger garage. Another related problem, Equus gives more comfort to back seat passengers. So unless you have chauffeur , you do not get advantage of the extra space.

Dema

I think major mistake of Hyundai making price too low. People who buy S class or even 7 Series do not care about price too much. Most important is prestige symbol and unreacheable value for others. Equus spoils the plan. From other side $60k car shoppers do not need this big super luxury car, they still can't get same status symbol because price. They will take more likely E class or XF. So I am puzzled what audience Equus targets.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

how did lexus priced their ls400 back in 1989 compared to s and 7 that year? i am just talking about the prices

gengar

Well not that I really want to get in the habit of continuing to necro old threads, but -

I can't speak for 1989, but I once looked at a 1992 LS400 which stickered around 44k and the 420SEL was like ~75k. That would have been the W140 S-Class though, which was much more expensive (around 20-30%) than the W126. Even factoring for that difference though, the '89 LS400 would still have been much cheaper than the Benz 420... let's not even talk about the 560.

I also don't really think Hyundai is trying to steal S-class buyers, so I don't think it's a "mistake" per se.

spwolf

they are trying to lift the brand image with genesis and equus.

not an bad idea.... but they cant get proper sales out of that, unless they split the dealerships. If you have MB/BMW/Lexus buyer in Hyundai service center, they wont be served right... it is just the way it is, when you spend your day fixing 20k cars, you wont be able to deal with 60k car customer properly.

not to mention those niggles like leather wearing out on 6 month old car like what Autoblog reports on their tester.

they also have plenty of stock for equus and genesis... while they really need more elantra which is poorly stocked everywhere :-).

sojah

iTrader: (1)

so i'm obviously a car guy and known as such at my work. everyone always asks me what i think about these new hyundai's attempting to encroach on lexus's domain. i always just smile and say just wait for a few years. no one ever seems to understand what this means. i tell them that you can see an awful lot of old lex's driving around but where do all the older hyundai's go? this is when i get the blank stare back and they just think i'm a weirdo and walk away... i just blew their minds¿

another funny thing i heard recently in some car chat channels was the greatest achievement/marketing trick of all was when hyundai was able to fool the american public into comparing them with the likes of BMW/MB/Lexus... i find this very amusing

just wait a few years is all i can say...

rominl

iTrader: (4)

thank you, that's pretty much all i am trying to say. i don't think it's right to say that the price is not "there" and thus it's not a competitor. for all we know, the ls400 debut at a price that's so attractive, and i am sure most can agree today that lexus ls stole certain number of customers from mb s and bmw 7.

again i am not saying that's the path equus is heading, still way too early to tell.

LexFather

And for the 8 millionth time, the LS didn't just sell based on lower price. The car reinvented the luxury field, the Germans went running to the drawing boards and the LS set a new standard for the automobile. Not just a class, the entire AUTOMOBILE.

The Equus is a fine Hyundai, its a great vehicle for them, it elevated them. It didn't elevate or change anyone or anything else. They got their niche and are surely very happy with the 3k sales last year.

FYI, Lexus sold what 35,000 or so LS's its first year and it wasn't a full 12 months.

Seriously any comparisons to the LS and 1989 are ridiculous. Its easy journalism for people that don't know **** about cars.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

did i say anywhere that ls400 sold only because of its price? the whole point of my posts was to demonstrate that price doesn't separate buyers completely, the car itself is what put it where it is. i am sorry i don't know anything about cars