C&D: Hyundai Equus tops the LS460L AWD
01-08-12, 10:21 AM
#166
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01-08-12, 10:45 AM
#167
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
you can't separate product and price as far as 1989 LS sales - the car was a home run because it was an amazing car AND also an amazing value.
it's still a really great car, but the value prop isn't as compelling, particularly since a huge chunk of 'buyers' in this segment lease anyway and as we know bmw/mb offer quite discounted lease pricing.
about the equus - its sales are peanuts compared to the LS or any competitor, but i have no doubt lexus has looked at it closely. while it's not a game changer it's a hell of a "1.0" product and the "2.0" could be much more of a 'wow' product, and by then hyundai will have already have established a little (but not a ton of) credibility in the luxury area.
it's still a really great car, but the value prop isn't as compelling, particularly since a huge chunk of 'buyers' in this segment lease anyway and as we know bmw/mb offer quite discounted lease pricing.
about the equus - its sales are peanuts compared to the LS or any competitor, but i have no doubt lexus has looked at it closely. while it's not a game changer it's a hell of a "1.0" product and the "2.0" could be much more of a 'wow' product, and by then hyundai will have already have established a little (but not a ton of) credibility in the luxury area.
01-08-12, 10:47 AM
#168
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with an equus the owner never needs to visit the dealership for buying or service. the dealer comes and gets and returns the car for service.
01-08-12, 10:58 AM
#169
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you can't separate product and price as far as 1989 LS sales - the car was a home run because it was an amazing car AND also an amazing value.
it's still a really great car, but the value prop isn't as compelling, particularly since a huge chunk of 'buyers' in this segment lease anyway and as we know bmw/mb offer quite discounted lease pricing.
about the equus - its sales are peanuts compared to the LS or any competitor, but i have no doubt lexus has looked at it closely. while it's not a game changer it's a hell of a "1.0" product and the "2.0" could be much more of a 'wow' product, and by then hyundai will have already have established a little (but not a ton of) credibility in the luxury area.
it's still a really great car, but the value prop isn't as compelling, particularly since a huge chunk of 'buyers' in this segment lease anyway and as we know bmw/mb offer quite discounted lease pricing.
about the equus - its sales are peanuts compared to the LS or any competitor, but i have no doubt lexus has looked at it closely. while it's not a game changer it's a hell of a "1.0" product and the "2.0" could be much more of a 'wow' product, and by then hyundai will have already have established a little (but not a ton of) credibility in the luxury area.
2.0 should be better but don't expect sales to double. Audi is lucky to sell twice as many A8s. The new Jaguar XJ can't crack it either. Cadillac purposely avoided the segment with the XTS. I fully give Hyundai credit for the Equus, it is very BOLD by them, it embarrasses Infiniti, Acura, Lincoln, Volvo etc.
I think we should appreciate the Equus for being the Equus and stop comparing it to the LS and anything else.
01-08-12, 11:43 AM
#170
Lexus Fanatic
01-08-12, 01:13 PM
#172
The original LS is called one of the 100 greatest vehicles of all time and one of the top 10 vehicles of the 1990s. The Equus won't be known for anything. It is an apple to oranges comparison as their execution and success is so different its not even funny. Again its lazy journalism, "hey let me compare this to that b/c of the surface". When you look at it past the surface, they are nothing alike.
2.0 should be better but don't expect sales to double. Audi is lucky to sell twice as many A8s. The new Jaguar XJ can't crack it either. Cadillac purposely avoided the segment with the XTS. I fully give Hyundai credit for the Equus, it is very BOLD by them, it embarrasses Infiniti, Acura, Lincoln, Volvo etc.
I think we should appreciate the Equus for being the Equus and stop comparing it to the LS and anything else.
2.0 should be better but don't expect sales to double. Audi is lucky to sell twice as many A8s. The new Jaguar XJ can't crack it either. Cadillac purposely avoided the segment with the XTS. I fully give Hyundai credit for the Equus, it is very BOLD by them, it embarrasses Infiniti, Acura, Lincoln, Volvo etc.
I think we should appreciate the Equus for being the Equus and stop comparing it to the LS and anything else.
01-08-12, 01:26 PM
#173
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
The original LS is called one of the 100 greatest vehicles of all time and one of the top 10 vehicles of the 1990s. The Equus won't be known for anything. It is an apple to oranges comparison as their execution and success is so different its not even funny. Again its lazy journalism, "hey let me compare this to that b/c of the surface". When you look at it past the surface, they are nothing alike.
2.0 should be better but don't expect sales to double. Audi is lucky to sell twice as many A8s. The new Jaguar XJ can't crack it either. Cadillac purposely avoided the segment with the XTS. I fully give Hyundai credit for the Equus, it is very BOLD by them, it embarrasses Infiniti, Acura, Lincoln, Volvo etc.
I think we should appreciate the Equus for being the Equus and stop comparing it to the LS and anything else.
still impressive!
01-08-12, 03:23 PM
#174
Lexus Fanatic
i agree in terms of impact and success!
i believe a next gen equus can easily double sales, but of course that's pure conjecture. i say it because of south korea's massive capability in electronics and manufacturing (they OWN lcd displays and tv's, for example).
well, i don't really have any interest in comparing a 2011/2012 Equus to a 1989 LS400 - that indeed is pointless. comparing a current LS460L to an Equus though is interesting. they're not the same car of course, with lexus owning the equus for now.
still impressive!
i believe a next gen equus can easily double sales, but of course that's pure conjecture. i say it because of south korea's massive capability in electronics and manufacturing (they OWN lcd displays and tv's, for example).
well, i don't really have any interest in comparing a 2011/2012 Equus to a 1989 LS400 - that indeed is pointless. comparing a current LS460L to an Equus though is interesting. they're not the same car of course, with lexus owning the equus for now.
still impressive!
20 years, the press was comparing the LS to the S class and 7 series, today the press is comparing the LS to a Hyundai.
I hope the next LS is the top of class and the press would not dare compare to a Hyundai.
01-08-12, 03:58 PM
#175
Hyundai has done a great job. To be compared to a Lexus is either great for Hyundai or pathetic for Lexus.
20 years, the press was comparing the LS to the S class and 7 series, today the press is comparing the LS to a Hyundai.
I hope the next LS is the top of class and the press would not dare compare to a Hyundai.
20 years, the press was comparing the LS to the S class and 7 series, today the press is comparing the LS to a Hyundai.
I hope the next LS is the top of class and the press would not dare compare to a Hyundai.
Being that Haiyondie targeted Lexus LS with its Equis, shows you who the king is. They didn't bother targeting the pathetic 7 series or ugly S class, not to mention Audi and other irrelevant wannabe luxury brands - they went straight for the best of the best... and failed miserably. Nobody wants this pathetic car, and its sales numbers are miserable, despite the fact that its $20k cheaper.
In the 80ies, Lexus didn't bother with irrelevant brands either, they also targeted the best of the best with the first gen LS - which at that time was the S class, and had tremendous success. The LS was superior to the S class in every way, and offered a much better value. It was so great that right away it became the #1 selling car in its class, and retained this title almost every year that it was on sale - despite steep discounts, subsidized leases and 6 cylinder engine offerings from its competitors. The LS has also inspired a lot of cars - the W140 S class borrowed a lot of LS design cues, the current 7 series has LS design cues, and the Equis is almost a direct rip off.
01-08-12, 03:59 PM
#176
I hate these Hyundai shills bumping up old threads in car forums all over the Internet. Plenty of threads not having to do Hyundai eventually end up becoming a discussion about Hyundai because of them too. So annoying.
01-08-12, 04:41 PM
#177
Hyundai has done a great job. To be compared to a Lexus is either great for Hyundai or pathetic for Lexus.
20 years, the press was comparing the LS to the S class and 7 series, today the press is comparing the LS to a Hyundai.
I hope the next LS is the top of class and the press would not dare compare to a Hyundai.
20 years, the press was comparing the LS to the S class and 7 series, today the press is comparing the LS to a Hyundai.
I hope the next LS is the top of class and the press would not dare compare to a Hyundai.
I do hope they compare, because competition drives better cars into the showroom. If Hyundai wants to gun for the large luxury sedan segment then sure. Will it ever have the class or polish of the LS, probably not, but they need to start somewhere, and where better to start than the benchmark LS. Was Lexus wrong to build the LFA supercar? No, it had to start somewhere even when Ferrari and Lamborghini have had decades of experience over them. On that note, you can be sure with the time that's gone by Lexus has not stood still on the sideline. A new design language, philosophy, and emotion has already begun starting with the GS. And will be seen shortly on the rest of the line-up. And for what its worth, the LS will have an interesting match-up around its release when the redesigned S-Class debuts (both were debuted as 2007 models).
01-08-12, 04:45 PM
#178
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
they're sponsoring the first pga golf tournament of the year for the second year. lots of good p-r to put it mildly.
01-08-12, 06:52 PM
#179
Lexus Fanatic
Com'on now, these two cars are compared because they they share similar shape, size, powertrains, layouts, features, options etc. NOT because of their Badge which is another matter. The LS's refinement, pedigree and class is enough in its self that it will always hold a candle to the Equus until Hyundai creates their own luxury arm, Kia will remain to (Chevrolet, Toyota, Ford, Dodge) whereas Hyundai is to (Buick, Chrysler - upscale/premium). Notice they (Hyundai) matches up with an upscale such as Infiniti very well; Genesis coupe - G37, Genesis Sedan R-Spec - M56S. Back to the post, remember who's writing or doing the comparo as the in this instance with C&D who favors ride, handling, and BMWs among other things. Everyone, including publications have biased towards what sways the outcome of their tests. Clearly in this case, the S and 7 were too much for the Equus to match up to, so the next front runner is the LS which harbors different attributes. Then they throw in the fact that this Hyundai upstart is to be matched up with another vehicle of the same formula some 20 years ago. Or at least that's part of their reasoning.
I do hope they compare, because competition drives better cars into the showroom. If Hyundai wants to gun for the large luxury sedan segment then sure. Will it ever have the class or polish of the LS, probably not, but they need to start somewhere, and where better to start than the benchmark LS. Was Lexus wrong to build the LFA supercar? No, it had to start somewhere even when Ferrari and Lamborghini have had decades of experience over them. On that note, you can be sure with the time that's gone by Lexus has not stood still on the sideline. A new design language, philosophy, and emotion has already begun starting with the GS. And will be seen shortly on the rest of the line-up. And for what its worth, the LS will have an interesting match-up around its release when the redesigned S-Class debuts (both were debuted as 2007 models).
I do hope they compare, because competition drives better cars into the showroom. If Hyundai wants to gun for the large luxury sedan segment then sure. Will it ever have the class or polish of the LS, probably not, but they need to start somewhere, and where better to start than the benchmark LS. Was Lexus wrong to build the LFA supercar? No, it had to start somewhere even when Ferrari and Lamborghini have had decades of experience over them. On that note, you can be sure with the time that's gone by Lexus has not stood still on the sideline. A new design language, philosophy, and emotion has already begun starting with the GS. And will be seen shortly on the rest of the line-up. And for what its worth, the LS will have an interesting match-up around its release when the redesigned S-Class debuts (both were debuted as 2007 models).
01-08-12, 07:01 PM
#180
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