Fizzboy7

I'll admit, at this level in the game, the name and brand of the car is a huge factor to me. Probably the biggest. I don't feel the Equus has the same panache as the Lexus. Maybe in my senior years it would matter less, but that hasn't kicked in yet. Otherwise, I am sure it's a fine automobile.
I wonder though, what are LS transaction prices really going for in the real world? I would wager to say at this late stage in the LS life cycle, it's probably greatly discounted.

flipside909

Cost is key. Air Suspension on the LS is very nice but it is dialed in to be very cushy and floaty, even on "sport" mode.

bigblack06

iTrader: (20)

i think it was a litle to early and I love to drive my dad's LS460 and I would never buy an Hyundai Equus, I mean eventhough this was the same story for lexus when they started at least they had the ***** to start a whole luxury brand and not luxury within regular brand, they made a mistake starting the price off at $66,000 and also copying everything that an LS has from the tailpipes to the somewhat comfy ride.

Guy Legend

I'm not sure what I find more shocking, a $65k Hyundai or a $98k Lexus sedan...

LexBob2

I haven't received this issue of C&D yet. I guess my mailman isn't done with it yet.

dunnojack

both equally shocking.

but so is a $150000 mercedes S class.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

$150k S-class can be 'justified' if it's along the V12 variants. It's an S-class. Don't know what else to say


Since we're on the topic,, how about a $60k Acura ZDX w/tech package?

Officially shocked.

spwolf

i bet it wasnt easy to find 98k LS.

edarte

I agree that the particular vehicle configurations selected for comparison were lopsided and that some of the criteria listed (e.g., owner’s manual) are trivial when comparing vehicles that cost this much. (Although I personally would prefer my manual in the IPad format).

If I had unlimited income then price would not be a factor but I think, to most people, (and certainly to the buyers considering this Hyundai), price is of obvious importance. The sweet spot in pricing cars like this is where you feel you paid a reasonable price, got a quality vehicle you feel pride in driving with all the options you care about , but don’t feel embarrassed to drive it because you cheeped out.

Sure Lexus has (had?) a quality reputation but my impression is that Lexus owners feel a sense of pride to have a quality vehicle that is also appreciated/envied by others. And I will confess to feeling a bit smug for being smart to not pay a premium for an MB just because of its name.

As for warranty; when I spend this much on a vehicle I want it to last, not cost me an arm and leg to maintain, and has a good resale value and warranty impacts all of this.

However a couple of other things to keep in mind:

Back when Toyota first introduced the Lexus line it got the same kind of flak for thinking it could compete with the likes of MB and people said there was no way it could ever match MB in quality. Well, as we all know, MB quality has been inconsistent over the years and Lexus became a viable alternative.

More recently Lexus quality has suffered and, from this perspective, Hyundai’s timing is perfect.

Where I think Hyundai may have a problem is overcoming the remaining stigma of being a poor quality producer. I certainly am aware that they have made tremendous gains in this area and it shows in places like JD powers surveys, etc. But even though I know this they would still have to offer one heck of a great car to make me switch from Lexus. But I am open-minded that this can happen

Back when Toyota introduced the Lexus line they had already built up a great reputation of building reasonably priced high-quality vehicles. They did not have Hyundai’s bad reputation to overcome. I think this made it a lot easier to attract the former MB buyers.

Now, if Lexus does not get its act together and continues to have serious quality issues and the media continues to focus on the recall stories then Hyundai has a real shot. I think this one is for Lexus to lose.

bruce van

C&D should really stop doing car comparisons. They've shown time and time again that they are a completely slanted magazine that doesn't get it. They compared the Nissan GT-R vs. Porche 911 vs. M3. Winner: M3.

Need I say more?

I've seen the Equus in the streets and had a chance to sit in one at the OC Auto show. It certainly is a very great effort by Hyundai and I'm glad they are offering it to us Americans. I don't see anyone buying them, but I'm glad it's an option and think Hyundai is on it's way to compete with Lexus. Just not even close yet.

With any luxury product, public perception is still priority number one. As much as I admire Hyundai, this is something they still have tremendous amount of ground to cover. They really need to branch off with an entirely new brand, in my opinion, if they want to compete toe to toe with the other luxury brands.

I took a coworker car shopping a couple months ago and she wanted a 4 door entry level car. We looked at the Audi A4, Volvo S60, BMW 3-series, Lexus IS250. I told her she should take a look at the Hyundai Genesis and could not bring herself to even look at the car because of the brand.

TRDFantasy

You can easily get a V8 S Class well over 100K. Also, the LS hybrid starting at over 100K is IMO also justified since it is currently the industry's only V8 luxury hybrid.

IMHO equally shocking as the ZDX is the fact that you can price an RL close to 60K.

RXSF

isnt the bmw 7 hybrid also a V8 hybrid? more powerful and around the same price. the LSh is the only Lexus model that I would have trouble buying. I dont feel its worth the cost at 106 starting. For that money, an S class would be the obvious choice.

LSh is not any faster, not any more economical than the gas LS, smaller trunk, and you can basically get the same options on the LS460l

TRDFantasy

You're right, I forgot about the 7 hybrid, I stand corrected.

The LS hybrid at passing is easily faster than a gas LS. Sure it might not be much faster than a regular LS at 0-60, but passing is where the big difference is. Also keep in mind LS hybrid is AWD, and on that note it's easily faster than a gas AWD LS. It is more economical than a regular LS, when both are driven in equal conditions. If you drive a gas LS really calmly, while gunning it in an LS hybrid, obviously it won't get much better economy.

This has been discussed before, but the LS hybrid needs to be compared to an AWD gas LS, and in that sense it is definitely faster than more economical. You also get a fully leather dash on the LS hybrid which I believe is not available on a gas LS. There are of course the LED headlights as well.

Several high-ranking government officials worldwide have bought LS hybrids, so the market doesn't necessarily feel the S-Class is the "obvious" choice when looking at 100K+ luxury sedans .

rominl

iTrader: (4)

it has about the same gas mileage but v12 performance. the pick up speed on the 600hl is far more capable than 460. of course you can't put s600 together, that car is FI and is a rocket, also far more expensive

TwiBlueG35

Has any Lexus/Toyota vehicles ever won any comparsion test in C&D? This Equus will not succeed in the U.S. as far as sales go. Volkswagen has tried Phaeton, failed. Mazda has tried Millenia and 929, failed. A separate brand is mandatory. It has nothing to do with the vehicle itself, it is the public's perception of the brand. Equus has the same badge as a Elantra, then it is doomed to fail.