Lexus 3.5 V-6 and 4.6 V-8...what next?
01-05-11, 09:21 PM
#17
lol 
If I had to guess though, I think they'll use a 5.0L like the IS-F and LS600hL. Regardless of what displacement it is, I think the new standard for hp in these luxo-barges is around the 400hp mark. Courtesy of BMW's 4.4L tt, MBZ's 4.7L tt (which I assume will take place of the old 5.5L)
If I had to guess though, I think they'll use a 5.0L like the IS-F and LS600hL. Regardless of what displacement it is, I think the new standard for hp in these luxo-barges is around the 400hp mark. Courtesy of BMW's 4.4L tt, MBZ's 4.7L tt (which I assume will take place of the old 5.5L)
01-05-11, 09:24 PM
#18
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01-05-11, 11:27 PM
#19
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I think the 3.5 is powerful enough. It's the 2.5 that needs work. Otherwise, it's going to be all about fuel economy.
01-06-11, 12:08 AM
#21
unless there is some new breakthrough in engine development, with the new emission standard that's going to be much harsher, alternative energy / FI seems to be the way to go. and the challenge with more power will further drive the focus in those areas.
what i am interested in is whether lexus will look into diesel and/or other options, or they will continue to focus only on hybrids. in the near future, i think the trend will be to carefully increase the top configuration of each model to have more power but worse gas mileage, but trying to put mainstream hybrids as the economy setup to offset it
01-06-11, 01:21 AM
#22
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There are rumors that Lexus might use a 5.0L V8 to replace the 4.6L V8 in the next few years on top models, but we'll see what happens.
The Germans are still sticking with their V8s, so I can't imagine Lexus stopping the use of V8s. IMHO luxury has always been synonymous with larger engines because luxury is not about needs, and not just about wants, but about excess and lavishness. Even during the fuel crisis and subsequent standards that changed in the 1970s, luxury was still synonymous with bigger engines. Their may have been a bit of a lull in the market, but once the 1980s came around big engines in luxury cars very common (and popular).
There is plenty of technology than can still be implemented to make V8 gas engines very efficient.
The Germans are still sticking with their V8s, so I can't imagine Lexus stopping the use of V8s. IMHO luxury has always been synonymous with larger engines because luxury is not about needs, and not just about wants, but about excess and lavishness. Even during the fuel crisis and subsequent standards that changed in the 1970s, luxury was still synonymous with bigger engines. Their may have been a bit of a lull in the market, but once the 1980s came around big engines in luxury cars very common (and popular).
There is plenty of technology than can still be implemented to make V8 gas engines very efficient.
01-06-11, 01:21 AM
#23
Lexus Champion
now that's a very plausible bright future
unless there is some new breakthrough in engine development, with the new emission standard that's going to be much harsher, alternative energy / FI seems to be the way to go. and the challenge with more power will further drive the focus in those areas.
what i am interested in is whether lexus will look into diesel and/or other options, or they will continue to focus only on hybrids. in the near future, i think the trend will be to carefully increase the top configuration of each model to have more power but worse gas mileage, but trying to put mainstream hybrids as the economy setup to offset it
unless there is some new breakthrough in engine development, with the new emission standard that's going to be much harsher, alternative energy / FI seems to be the way to go. and the challenge with more power will further drive the focus in those areas.
what i am interested in is whether lexus will look into diesel and/or other options, or they will continue to focus only on hybrids. in the near future, i think the trend will be to carefully increase the top configuration of each model to have more power but worse gas mileage, but trying to put mainstream hybrids as the economy setup to offset it
It was so bad that more than half of IS220d owners in the UK alone traded it for an IS250 SEL automatic instead.
IMHO, Lexus should not even bother with diesels if they can't get it right. Better to stick with hybrids instead if that's going to be the case.
01-06-11, 05:12 AM
#24
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I think Lexus should stick to hybrids. Fuel efficient Atkinson cycle engines mated with the smooth torque delivery of an e-CVT is an indusrty standard not matched by any other automaker.
Downsizing + FI seems to work well only on the test cycles, but not in the real life application.
DI is a two-edged sword because lean burn mode leads also to higher sooth and nitric oxide emissions and those are much more dangerous compounds than carbon dioxide.
And last but not least - Lexus and diesel - never again!
Downsizing + FI seems to work well only on the test cycles, but not in the real life application.
DI is a two-edged sword because lean burn mode leads also to higher sooth and nitric oxide emissions and those are much more dangerous compounds than carbon dioxide.
And last but not least - Lexus and diesel - never again!
01-06-11, 08:08 AM
#25
As TRDFantasy outlined, I think there are plenty of technologies that will allow power and efficiency to increase in harmony. We are in an age where 300HP is the norm for V6s, and if you don't get at least 25MPG on the highway they you're considered a gas hog. 420HP V8s can do 30MPG on the highway at 75MPH...who would have believed either of those eight years ago? Modern day fuel saving technologies have come a long way very quickly and I expect improvements to continue.
I think a significant problem is the EPA's 2008 rating system that is said to be more realistic and closer to the driving habits of actual consumers. I remember reading that the test process now includes runs up to 80MPH, 0-60 and a 70-0 sections. Now, I don't know about you, but I don't know many drivers (including enthusiasts) who do that type of driving every day.
Our ES will do 29 or 30 MPG on the highway at 75MPH, loaded with people, dogs and suitcases. That's not even trying...it's just what we expect. The same can be said for LS, GS and IS and those aren't even just my personal experiences but come from talking to owners and looking at their cars when I worked at a dealership. We had more than a few LS460 owners averaging 25MPG in mixed driving, reporting 31-32MPG on the highway and low 20s in the city. Hell, the ISF will touch 30MPG on the highway. If you look at the EPA's ratings for any of these cars, they are 3-7MPG below what I have seen people get in the real world.
Now, I know there is a fine line between driving like a grandpa, keeping pace, and burning up the road, but if the EPA's rating method was supposed to provide more realistic results, who are they tracking? 16 yr olds? Street racers? As a consumer (whether it's Lexus or another brand) I'd like to see a more accurate number on the window, not just be pleasantly surprised after a few weeks of ownership. Needless to say that this will help companies match CAFE standards as well.
As for Lexus specifically, I expect the 3.5L DI V6 to grow to ~325hp and gain 12-15% in fuel efficiency. Both numbers are easily achievable with Valvematic alone and don't consider new transmissions or other upgrades. I hope that Lexus will put a V8 in the GS, not just because I think the car needs one, but because it shares costs with the SC and LS. Pretty soon, those two will need a new V8 as well, and I think even the GX and LX use derivatives of the same block. Adding it to the GS would simply be another way to spread costs around.
I don't think the GS460 ever sold well because Lexus never really tried to make a case for it. Same wheels and same looks as the 350, no sports package, it was like they were thinking, "Well because the other two have one, I guess we should drop a V8 under the hood." If they went at it from a different angle next generation (GS F-Sport) then I certainly see a business case.
I'd expect the 2.5L V6 to grow to 3.0L and bump up to 240hp or so.
I think the performance hybrid/fuel economy hybrid is a good solution.
I think a significant problem is the EPA's 2008 rating system that is said to be more realistic and closer to the driving habits of actual consumers. I remember reading that the test process now includes runs up to 80MPH, 0-60 and a 70-0 sections. Now, I don't know about you, but I don't know many drivers (including enthusiasts) who do that type of driving every day.
Our ES will do 29 or 30 MPG on the highway at 75MPH, loaded with people, dogs and suitcases. That's not even trying...it's just what we expect. The same can be said for LS, GS and IS and those aren't even just my personal experiences but come from talking to owners and looking at their cars when I worked at a dealership. We had more than a few LS460 owners averaging 25MPG in mixed driving, reporting 31-32MPG on the highway and low 20s in the city. Hell, the ISF will touch 30MPG on the highway. If you look at the EPA's ratings for any of these cars, they are 3-7MPG below what I have seen people get in the real world.
Now, I know there is a fine line between driving like a grandpa, keeping pace, and burning up the road, but if the EPA's rating method was supposed to provide more realistic results, who are they tracking? 16 yr olds? Street racers? As a consumer (whether it's Lexus or another brand) I'd like to see a more accurate number on the window, not just be pleasantly surprised after a few weeks of ownership. Needless to say that this will help companies match CAFE standards as well.
As for Lexus specifically, I expect the 3.5L DI V6 to grow to ~325hp and gain 12-15% in fuel efficiency. Both numbers are easily achievable with Valvematic alone and don't consider new transmissions or other upgrades. I hope that Lexus will put a V8 in the GS, not just because I think the car needs one, but because it shares costs with the SC and LS. Pretty soon, those two will need a new V8 as well, and I think even the GX and LX use derivatives of the same block. Adding it to the GS would simply be another way to spread costs around.
I don't think the GS460 ever sold well because Lexus never really tried to make a case for it. Same wheels and same looks as the 350, no sports package, it was like they were thinking, "Well because the other two have one, I guess we should drop a V8 under the hood." If they went at it from a different angle next generation (GS F-Sport) then I certainly see a business case.
I'd expect the 2.5L V6 to grow to 3.0L and bump up to 240hp or so.
I think the performance hybrid/fuel economy hybrid is a good solution.
01-06-11, 08:28 AM
#26
As TRDFantasy outlined, I think there are plenty of technologies that will allow power and efficiency to increase in harmony. We are in an age where 300HP is the norm for V6s, and if you don't get at least 25MPG on the highway they you're considered a gas hog. 420HP V8s can do 30MPG on the highway at 75MPH...who would have believed either of those eight years ago? Modern day fuel saving technologies have come a long way very quickly and I expect improvements to continue.
I think a significant problem is the EPA's 2008 rating system that is said to be more realistic and closer to the driving habits of actual consumers. I remember reading that the test process now includes runs up to 80MPH, 0-60 and a 70-0 sections. Now, I don't know about you, but I don't know many drivers (including enthusiasts) who do that type of driving every day.
Our ES will do 29 or 30 MPG on the highway at 75MPH, loaded with people, dogs and suitcases. That's not even trying...it's just what we expect. The same can be said for LS, GS and IS and those aren't even just my personal experiences but come from talking to owners and looking at their cars when I worked at a dealership. We had more than a few LS460 owners averaging 25MPG in mixed driving, reporting 31-32MPG on the highway and low 20s in the city. Hell, the ISF will touch 30MPG on the highway. If you look at the EPA's ratings for any of these cars, they are 3-7MPG below what I have seen people get in the real world.
Now, I know there is a fine line between driving like a grandpa, keeping pace, and burning up the road, but if the EPA's rating method was supposed to provide more realistic results, who are they tracking? 16 yr olds? Street racers? As a consumer (whether it's Lexus or another brand) I'd like to see a more accurate number on the window, not just be pleasantly surprised after a few weeks of ownership. Needless to say that this will help companies match CAFE standards as well.
As for Lexus specifically, I expect the 3.5L DI V6 to grow to ~325hp and gain 12-15% in fuel efficiency. Both numbers are easily achievable with Valvematic alone and don't consider new transmissions or other upgrades. I hope that Lexus will put a V8 in the GS, not just because I think the car needs one, but because it shares costs with the SC and LS. Pretty soon, those two will need a new V8 as well, and I think even the GX and LX use derivatives of the same block. Adding it to the GS would simply be another way to spread costs around.
I don't think the GS460 ever sold well because Lexus never really tried to make a case for it. Same wheels and same looks as the 350, no sports package, it was like they were thinking, "Well because the other two have one, I guess we should drop a V8 under the hood." If they went at it from a different angle next generation (GS F-Sport) then I certainly see a business case.
I'd expect the 2.5L V6 to grow to 3.0L and bump up to 240hp or so.
I think the performance hybrid/fuel economy hybrid is a good solution.
I think a significant problem is the EPA's 2008 rating system that is said to be more realistic and closer to the driving habits of actual consumers. I remember reading that the test process now includes runs up to 80MPH, 0-60 and a 70-0 sections. Now, I don't know about you, but I don't know many drivers (including enthusiasts) who do that type of driving every day.
Our ES will do 29 or 30 MPG on the highway at 75MPH, loaded with people, dogs and suitcases. That's not even trying...it's just what we expect. The same can be said for LS, GS and IS and those aren't even just my personal experiences but come from talking to owners and looking at their cars when I worked at a dealership. We had more than a few LS460 owners averaging 25MPG in mixed driving, reporting 31-32MPG on the highway and low 20s in the city. Hell, the ISF will touch 30MPG on the highway. If you look at the EPA's ratings for any of these cars, they are 3-7MPG below what I have seen people get in the real world.
Now, I know there is a fine line between driving like a grandpa, keeping pace, and burning up the road, but if the EPA's rating method was supposed to provide more realistic results, who are they tracking? 16 yr olds? Street racers? As a consumer (whether it's Lexus or another brand) I'd like to see a more accurate number on the window, not just be pleasantly surprised after a few weeks of ownership. Needless to say that this will help companies match CAFE standards as well.
As for Lexus specifically, I expect the 3.5L DI V6 to grow to ~325hp and gain 12-15% in fuel efficiency. Both numbers are easily achievable with Valvematic alone and don't consider new transmissions or other upgrades. I hope that Lexus will put a V8 in the GS, not just because I think the car needs one, but because it shares costs with the SC and LS. Pretty soon, those two will need a new V8 as well, and I think even the GX and LX use derivatives of the same block. Adding it to the GS would simply be another way to spread costs around.
I don't think the GS460 ever sold well because Lexus never really tried to make a case for it. Same wheels and same looks as the 350, no sports package, it was like they were thinking, "Well because the other two have one, I guess we should drop a V8 under the hood." If they went at it from a different angle next generation (GS F-Sport) then I certainly see a business case.
I'd expect the 2.5L V6 to grow to 3.0L and bump up to 240hp or so.
I think the performance hybrid/fuel economy hybrid is a good solution.
and i think och was joking. i don't think lexus should get rid of v8
01-06-11, 09:06 AM
#28
Lexus Fanatic
Also (as mentioned by others above too), the 2.5L needs to be upsized a bit to compete the Mercedes C-class and BMW 3 series equivalents.
01-06-11, 09:12 AM
#29
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by DFGeneer
Lexus and diesel - never again!
. The IS220d is a DISGRACE.P.S.
Anyways, I expect that IS stick shift numbers are less than automatic ones (globally). It's only a matter of time before Lexus will completely get rid of the stick shift in ALL of its vehicles (though actually, I think the current IS only had stick shift among all current Lexus vehicles.........but I expect the manual gearbox option to be eliminated in the next generations).