Toyota studies magnesium battery as lithium alternate
01-10-11, 09:01 PM
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Toyota studies magnesium battery as lithium alternate
Toyota studies magnesium battery as lithium alternate
January 10, 2011 - 5:08 pm ET
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DETROIT (Bloomberg) -- Toyota Motor Corp. said it’s developing a magnesium battery that holds twice the energy of lithium-ion cells as automakers seek better ways to power electric cars.
The company’s technical center in Ann Arbor, Mich., is working on the magnesium-sulfur battery, complementing development of other future electric-power chemistries at Toyota labs in Japan, Jeffrey Makarewicz, the engineer managing the U.S. project, said in an interview at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.
“Going from nickel-metal hydride to lithium ion, you essentially double the energy capacity,” he said. “Lithium ion theoretically, under ideal conditions, has a capacity of about 2,000 kilowatt hours. That’s still not enough to really make a very competitive battery that’s necessary for future plug-in, electric and hybrid-electric vehicles.”
Vehicles with magnesium batteries or alternative materials may be ready by about 2020, Makarewicz said. Toyota is working on such technologies as Nissan Motor Co. and General Motors Co. in the past month have released rechargeable models with lithium-ion packs that let drivers go extended distances on battery power alone.
Nissan wants its Leaf to be the world’s top-selling all- electric car, aiming for annual global sales of at least 500,000 battery-powered cars including Leaf and models from affiliate Renault SA within the next few years.
‘More modest’ demand
Toyota expects “much more modest” U.S. demand for battery-only vehicles during that period because of power-pack limitations, Bob Carter, the automaker's U.S. group vice president, said in an interview here today.
The automaker’s U.S. unit is also looking at aluminum and calcium as potential battery materials, Makarewicz said. In Japan, company engineers are researching “lithium air and metal air” batteries, he said, without elaborating.
January 10, 2011 - 5:08 pm ET
>> Send us a Letter to the Editor
DETROIT (Bloomberg) -- Toyota Motor Corp. said it’s developing a magnesium battery that holds twice the energy of lithium-ion cells as automakers seek better ways to power electric cars.
The company’s technical center in Ann Arbor, Mich., is working on the magnesium-sulfur battery, complementing development of other future electric-power chemistries at Toyota labs in Japan, Jeffrey Makarewicz, the engineer managing the U.S. project, said in an interview at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.
“Going from nickel-metal hydride to lithium ion, you essentially double the energy capacity,” he said. “Lithium ion theoretically, under ideal conditions, has a capacity of about 2,000 kilowatt hours. That’s still not enough to really make a very competitive battery that’s necessary for future plug-in, electric and hybrid-electric vehicles.”
Vehicles with magnesium batteries or alternative materials may be ready by about 2020, Makarewicz said. Toyota is working on such technologies as Nissan Motor Co. and General Motors Co. in the past month have released rechargeable models with lithium-ion packs that let drivers go extended distances on battery power alone.
Nissan wants its Leaf to be the world’s top-selling all- electric car, aiming for annual global sales of at least 500,000 battery-powered cars including Leaf and models from affiliate Renault SA within the next few years.
‘More modest’ demand
Toyota expects “much more modest” U.S. demand for battery-only vehicles during that period because of power-pack limitations, Bob Carter, the automaker's U.S. group vice president, said in an interview here today.
The automaker’s U.S. unit is also looking at aluminum and calcium as potential battery materials, Makarewicz said. In Japan, company engineers are researching “lithium air and metal air” batteries, he said, without elaborating.
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...#ixzz1AhRpzD00
01-11-11, 12:26 PM
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Even if magnesium batteries don't work out, Toyota is spending huge amounts of time and money looking into a variety of other battery technology and chemistry.
01-11-11, 01:43 PM
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uhm, toyota is only car company that owns lithium ore mines, thus securing their supply... everyone else talks via PRs and then produce very low amount of actual vehicles.
01-11-11, 02:47 PM
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Nissan, Chevy, MB all have hybrids/electric vehicles on the road using Li-ion battery packs.
Ford has hybrids that are more fuel efficient, and Hyundai with the sonata hybrid bests the camry too.
Ford has hybrids that are more fuel efficient, and Hyundai with the sonata hybrid bests the camry too.
01-11-11, 03:47 PM
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There is competition everywhere, so sometimes competitor will beat market leader, Toyota can not issue new car every year, but overall numbers speak to themselves. But even in the case of TCH, real world numbers are similar to Fusion Hybrid.
and toyota is pretty much biggest believer in lithium batteries since they are only car company that has secured lithium supply by buying their own mines, not to mention they are one of the few that have their own battery producing factories, and dont simply outsource it to 3rd party.
All of the competition together dont produce 10% of Toyota global sales of hybrids (not counting Honda).
except for ford and honda, all these PR's dont automagically make their companies produce thousands of hybrids... they are just doing it to please shareholders and convince them they are riding the future.
they probably lose money on them hence they dont produce many. most of these guys are willing to actually invest money into hybrids, that even includes ford. I applaud Nissan and GM for actually having ***** to invest some money into Leaf and Volt. Everyone else is just riding the PR train.
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01-11-11, 07:13 PM
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So you're comparing NEW Ford and Hyundai hybrids to Toyota's OLD Camry hybrid?
The next-gen Camry hybrid that's coming soon will likely BLOW AWAY the competition.
Speaking of which, the Prius V blows away any competition fuel economy-wise that is comparable in size.
Besides, Toyota will transition to li-ion batteries within the next 1-2 years in many of their main hybrid models.
01-11-11, 07:40 PM
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I would take the guess and say that the next gen camry hybrid is in the works right? that means that whatever great technology they have in store need not wait for the next camry hybrid, and theoretically could be used in other hybrids. And yet, in the last year, the HS, CT, and the upcoming Prius V still use the dated technology. I am glad that toyota is looking beyond Li-ion, but I just dont understand what is taking them so long to bring those batteries to the market even if they are only for transitional purposes.
Its great that Toyota basically invented the hybrid, but they wont remain in the top spot unless they significantly increase their mpg numbers.
Its great that Toyota basically invented the hybrid, but they wont remain in the top spot unless they significantly increase their mpg numbers.
01-11-11, 07:51 PM
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I would take the guess and say that the next gen camry hybrid is in the works right? that means that whatever great technology they have in store need not wait for the next camry hybrid, and theoretically could be used in other hybrids. And yet, in the last year, the HS, CT, and the upcoming Prius V still use the dated technology. I am glad that toyota is looking beyond Li-ion, but I just dont understand what is taking them so long to bring those batteries to the market even if they are only for transitional purposes.
Its great that Toyota basically invented the hybrid, but they wont remain in the top spot unless they significantly increase their mpg numbers.
Its great that Toyota basically invented the hybrid, but they wont remain in the top spot unless they significantly increase their mpg numbers.
Toyota has gone on record before explaining why they have yet to release production hybrids with li-ion batteries. Toyota mentioned that there were still problems with long term durability with li-ion batteries. You don't want to have exploding batteries in your car similar to what happened years ago with laptop and cell phone batteries do you?
You can't have your cake and eat it too. I'd rather see Toyota do it once and do it right, instead of rushing it out, then redoing it due to problems.
I question the long-term reliability of some of the hybrids and electrics out on the road already that use li-ion batteries. Will these batteries be as reliable as the Ni-MH batteries in Toyota's hybrids? Toyota's batteries have already been proven in the harshest of conditions. There are Prius taxi cabs with over 300,000 miles on the ORIGINAL battery packs still running in good condition.
01-12-11, 05:41 AM
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I would take the guess and say that the next gen camry hybrid is in the works right? that means that whatever great technology they have in store need not wait for the next camry hybrid, and theoretically could be used in other hybrids. And yet, in the last year, the HS, CT, and the upcoming Prius V still use the dated technology. I am glad that toyota is looking beyond Li-ion, but I just dont understand what is taking them so long to bring those batteries to the market even if they are only for transitional purposes.
Its great that Toyota basically invented the hybrid, but they wont remain in the top spot unless they significantly increase their mpg numbers.
Its great that Toyota basically invented the hybrid, but they wont remain in the top spot unless they significantly increase their mpg numbers.
of course, if you are doing it for PR, then you put it in, claim advanced technology and produce very few of them. Ford, Honda and Toyota, that produce >95% of world hybrids, still use nimh batteries in all of their production hybrids.
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