Toyota's biggest problem: Aging lineup
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
![Post](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Toyota...35248.html?x=0
Honest article and points that have been discussed.
Honest article and points that have been discussed.
DETROIT (AP) -- It would be easy to think Toyota's biggest problem is its damaged reputation caused by sudden acceleration recalls, millions in government fines and massive lawsuits and settlements. But what's hurting the company most is an aging lineup of boring cars.
Over the past decade, Toyota and its U.S. dealers had it easy. Cutting edge design wasn't required because the cars sold themselves on reputation. Everyone knew Toyotas held their value, were safe and got drivers from point A to point B with little drama. Then came the recalls, which called all of that into question.
Ending the year on a low note, Camry sales fell 10 percent in December from a year earlier. Corolla sales plunged 35 percent. Unless things turn around quickly, Camry is in danger of losing its 10-year crown as the nation's top-selling car this year to the Honda Accord.
Ho hum cars are "probably the worst problem for them," says Jessica Caldwell, director of pricing and industry analysis for Edmunds.com. "They always had their (safety) reputation to fall back on, but now that's not the case."
CEO Akio Toyoda acknowledges that Toyota is at a design crossroads. He has told dealers several times that he's working to improve Toyota's exterior styling, pushing designers to come up with something more exciting. The company is "intent on making Toyota cars better looking," he told reporters Monday during his first-ever visit to the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.
After becoming the world's largest automaker in 2007, Toyota reversed course and resumed giving executives in Japan the final say on design decisions for the U.S. market. Some question whether that change left Toyota at a disadvantage as Hyundai, Ford and General Motors moved quicker to tailor new designs specifically for U.S. car buyers.
Mike Jackson, CEO of Autonation, the country's largest car dealer network, says that in the past, sedans sold based primarily on their quality, reliability and resale values. Automakers believed "the styling should be conservative enough to not put people off," he said. "I don't think that's the future. Now you have to differentiate yourself."
Company insiders dispute that notion that Toyota is facing anything approaching a design crisis. "Styling is subjective," said Bob Carter, vice president and general manager of the Toyota division. Outsiders may say Toyota cars are boring, but that's the downside of being so popular, he said. "When you see so many of them on the road, they start to look familiar."
The first peek at the next generation of Camry won't come until the New York Auto Show in April. They'll be in showrooms this fall. Early reviews of the next Corolla model were not enthusiastic when it was unveiled at the Los Angeles auto show in November. People at the show couldn't tell it from the 2010 Corolla unless they read a sticker Toyota put on the newer model.
Toyota is focusing most of its attention at the Detroit show on an expanded Prius lineup. The centerpiece is a Prius MPV, a minivan-like car. It's also showing a five-seater that is smaller than the current Prius sedan. It eventually will be sold in the U.S., although the timing is still unclear. And it's bringing a plug-in electric Prius to compete with the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Volt. The minivan goes on sale this summer, and the plug-in will be on sale this spring.
But even if the Prius debuts are hits at the auto show, hybrids aren't the company's bread and butter. They were outsold 4-to-1 by the Camry and Corolla in 2010, when Toyota was the only automaker to sell fewer cars and trucks than in 2009. Even after piling on incentives, it lost 2 percentage points of market share and slipped behind Ford as the runner up to GM in sales.
Working in Toyota's favor is that about 60 percent of its customer base have owned Toyotas in the past and are loyal to the brand. "The recall crisis is hurting them, but it's not like they are in dire straits," says David Whiston, an auto analyst with Morningstar investment research firm. "But they may never get back to that halo status they had a few years ago."
Toyoda says the company is recommitting to focusing on consumers and on styling, but they need to move fast if they want to keep up with the competition. "Their big mantra before the recalls flurry was that their customers liked predictability and reliability, and they gave them that more than any other manufacturer," says Peter DeLorenzo, editor of auto blog AutoExtremist. "But the game has changed."
Over the past decade, Toyota and its U.S. dealers had it easy. Cutting edge design wasn't required because the cars sold themselves on reputation. Everyone knew Toyotas held their value, were safe and got drivers from point A to point B with little drama. Then came the recalls, which called all of that into question.
Ending the year on a low note, Camry sales fell 10 percent in December from a year earlier. Corolla sales plunged 35 percent. Unless things turn around quickly, Camry is in danger of losing its 10-year crown as the nation's top-selling car this year to the Honda Accord.
Ho hum cars are "probably the worst problem for them," says Jessica Caldwell, director of pricing and industry analysis for Edmunds.com. "They always had their (safety) reputation to fall back on, but now that's not the case."
CEO Akio Toyoda acknowledges that Toyota is at a design crossroads. He has told dealers several times that he's working to improve Toyota's exterior styling, pushing designers to come up with something more exciting. The company is "intent on making Toyota cars better looking," he told reporters Monday during his first-ever visit to the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.
After becoming the world's largest automaker in 2007, Toyota reversed course and resumed giving executives in Japan the final say on design decisions for the U.S. market. Some question whether that change left Toyota at a disadvantage as Hyundai, Ford and General Motors moved quicker to tailor new designs specifically for U.S. car buyers.
Mike Jackson, CEO of Autonation, the country's largest car dealer network, says that in the past, sedans sold based primarily on their quality, reliability and resale values. Automakers believed "the styling should be conservative enough to not put people off," he said. "I don't think that's the future. Now you have to differentiate yourself."
Company insiders dispute that notion that Toyota is facing anything approaching a design crisis. "Styling is subjective," said Bob Carter, vice president and general manager of the Toyota division. Outsiders may say Toyota cars are boring, but that's the downside of being so popular, he said. "When you see so many of them on the road, they start to look familiar."
The first peek at the next generation of Camry won't come until the New York Auto Show in April. They'll be in showrooms this fall. Early reviews of the next Corolla model were not enthusiastic when it was unveiled at the Los Angeles auto show in November. People at the show couldn't tell it from the 2010 Corolla unless they read a sticker Toyota put on the newer model.
Toyota is focusing most of its attention at the Detroit show on an expanded Prius lineup. The centerpiece is a Prius MPV, a minivan-like car. It's also showing a five-seater that is smaller than the current Prius sedan. It eventually will be sold in the U.S., although the timing is still unclear. And it's bringing a plug-in electric Prius to compete with the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Volt. The minivan goes on sale this summer, and the plug-in will be on sale this spring.
But even if the Prius debuts are hits at the auto show, hybrids aren't the company's bread and butter. They were outsold 4-to-1 by the Camry and Corolla in 2010, when Toyota was the only automaker to sell fewer cars and trucks than in 2009. Even after piling on incentives, it lost 2 percentage points of market share and slipped behind Ford as the runner up to GM in sales.
Working in Toyota's favor is that about 60 percent of its customer base have owned Toyotas in the past and are loyal to the brand. "The recall crisis is hurting them, but it's not like they are in dire straits," says David Whiston, an auto analyst with Morningstar investment research firm. "But they may never get back to that halo status they had a few years ago."
Toyoda says the company is recommitting to focusing on consumers and on styling, but they need to move fast if they want to keep up with the competition. "Their big mantra before the recalls flurry was that their customers liked predictability and reliability, and they gave them that more than any other manufacturer," says Peter DeLorenzo, editor of auto blog AutoExtremist. "But the game has changed."
#2
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Mostly stuff we already know, along with the usual useless commentary from "analysts" who ignore the market reality.
Great to hear we have confirmation on when the next-gen Camry will debut. So its not Detroit or Chicago like many expected. So it seems Toyota delayed the new Camry by a few months, not a big deal.
Why would the CEO of Autonation say something so silly? Last time I checked, the Camry was STILL the top selling sedan in the market, and the bland Accord was in 2nd place.
The market reality is that conservative styling sells, in big numbers. The Ford F150, Camry, Corolla, and Accord are ALL conservative designs. The Civic is one exception, but the next-gen Civic will be MORE conservative than the current model. The Ford Fusion also has conservative styling.
Maybe he doesn't think that's the future, well he does so thinking like that at his own risk. The market reality TODAY is "differentiating" styling still puts off a lot of people, and I don't see that changing much in the future.
Perfectly said by Bob Carter. Despite the "bland" criticism, the cars continue to be very popular.
Great to hear we have confirmation on when the next-gen Camry will debut. So its not Detroit or Chicago like many expected. So it seems Toyota delayed the new Camry by a few months, not a big deal.
Mike Jackson, CEO of Autonation, the country's largest car dealer network, says that in the past, sedans sold based primarily on their quality, reliability and resale values. Automakers believed "the styling should be conservative enough to not put people off," he said. "I don't think that's the future. Now you have to differentiate yourself."
The market reality is that conservative styling sells, in big numbers. The Ford F150, Camry, Corolla, and Accord are ALL conservative designs. The Civic is one exception, but the next-gen Civic will be MORE conservative than the current model. The Ford Fusion also has conservative styling.
Maybe he doesn't think that's the future, well he does so thinking like that at his own risk. The market reality TODAY is "differentiating" styling still puts off a lot of people, and I don't see that changing much in the future.
Company insiders dispute that notion that Toyota is facing anything approaching a design crisis. "Styling is subjective," said Bob Carter, vice president and general manager of the Toyota division. Outsiders may say Toyota cars are boring, but that's the downside of being so popular, he said. "When you see so many of them on the road, they start to look familiar."
#3
Lexus Test Driver
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
The article is incorrect in stating the next Corolla debut in Los Angeles was hardly noticable. It wasn't a redesigned car, but only a facelift. They are talking like it was an all new car.
And I agree it's not fair to criticize the Camry's styling. When you sell as many Camry's as Toyota does, the look becomes extremely familar because you are seeing so many each day. This popularity gives the illusion the car is dated when it really is not.
BTW, I read the same article in 2006 right before the new Camry debuted. This happens at the end of every Camry lifecycle. No one seems to be in this industry long enough to see and remember the patterns.
And I agree it's not fair to criticize the Camry's styling. When you sell as many Camry's as Toyota does, the look becomes extremely familar because you are seeing so many each day. This popularity gives the illusion the car is dated when it really is not.
BTW, I read the same article in 2006 right before the new Camry debuted. This happens at the end of every Camry lifecycle. No one seems to be in this industry long enough to see and remember the patterns.
#4
Lexus Fanatic
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I've always biched about this.
sheet metal is cheap. you can mold it any way you want. Add some creases and contours. some style.
The camry is in a unique position. It is a car which has a pretty good reputation, and just happens to be the Mediocrity benchmark in terms of appearance.
Even if toyota spiced up the camry, it would still be #1 in sales. Spicing it up will not turn people away.
people don't buy the camry because it looks a certain way. They buy it because it's cheap, and has a pretty spotless reputation. That unintended accleration garbage doesn't count.
sheet metal is cheap. you can mold it any way you want. Add some creases and contours. some style.
The camry is in a unique position. It is a car which has a pretty good reputation, and just happens to be the Mediocrity benchmark in terms of appearance.
Even if toyota spiced up the camry, it would still be #1 in sales. Spicing it up will not turn people away.
people don't buy the camry because it looks a certain way. They buy it because it's cheap, and has a pretty spotless reputation. That unintended accleration garbage doesn't count.
#6
Racer
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I also agree the current Camry is handsome. But it’s obvious it needs more style. Honestly lately all I been hearing about is Hyundai new cars. The Honda Accord is far from bland. It actually looks like a transformer or whatever. I really think Toyota should either go radical with either the Yaris or Corolla both cars look so boring on the road. But its obvious people love them. Do I think Toyota should change? H! No But they can do a little better in the design dept. That way all the people that were once loyal to Honda will come over vs. going to Hyundai or Ford.
#7
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Company insiders dispute that notion that Toyota is facing anything approaching a design crisis. "Styling is subjective," said Bob Carter, vice president and general manager of the Toyota division. Outsiders may say Toyota cars are boring, but that's the downside of being so popular, he said. "When you see so many of them on the road, they start to look familiar."
Trending Topics
#8
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I don't think that argument flies. Toyotas are not that popular in Europe and they still look bland. They're not ugly, you just wish they had spent a bit more time and money on design to make a truly disireable product. I can't think of any Toyota that would buy based on looks. I think their challenge is going to come from Hyundai and Kia, they are really putting the effort and resources in and it's starting to bear fruit. 5 and 7 year warranties and a recognition of quality at least as good as Toyota's help as well.
#9
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Another thing to note is that Toyota is going to update almost every car they make in the next 2 years.... Yaris, Corolla, Camry, Rav4... all are getting all new versions... So obviously, their major designs are now 6 years old, of course it is stale.
#11
Racer
iTrader: (1)
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Aging lineup? I don't think it will matter the Camry will if not still the best seller, the Corolla updated for 2011 I have no question will still be one of the best sellers even with the redesigned Elantra, new Cruze, and new Focus, the newly updated Highlander for 2011 seems to be selling quite well, then there's also the new Sienna selling well.
I have no problem with their styling , better than taking it to the extreme like Hyundai or somewhat Honda is trying to do imo. That to other buyers like myself is a turn off.
I have no problem with their styling , better than taking it to the extreme like Hyundai or somewhat Honda is trying to do imo. That to other buyers like myself is a turn off.
#13
Lexus Fanatic
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Agreed, I find the Camry and new Sonata to be the best looking in this class of affordable fwd sedans. And the strong sales numbers of both show the huge success of both models.
The current Camry has a European look that even VW can't seem to get right. And the proportions are especially good for a fwd car.
The current Camry has a European look that even VW can't seem to get right. And the proportions are especially good for a fwd car.
#14
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
There was definitely a time where I took that car for granted but the luxury-car smooth ride was so welcome over the potholes where I lived. For a 4 cyl., that engine was surprisingly refined too. I would definitely consider one in the future.
The Accord has a slightly more involving drive but didn't really match the comfort of the Camry. If that's what kept them warming the top spot for 10 years or so, they shouldn't change a winning formula!
Michael
#15
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
honestly, now "old" camry looks a lot better than our Euro Avensis to my Euro eyes - I only saw it few times but it has some interesting lines. Of course, interior is too simple for Europe.