the gasoline thread
01-13-11, 10:10 PM
#92
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This may sound crazy....I have a friend with an RX and we did an experiment between Chevron and Shell for about half a year with similar driving conditions. Both of us found that Shell gave us higher MPG! Ever since I just stick with Shell V-Power 
Plus it is one of the cheapest in my neighborhood.
Plus it is one of the cheapest in my neighborhood.
01-14-11, 05:33 AM
#94
This may sound crazy....I have a friend with an RX and we did an experiment between Chevron and Shell for about half a year with similar driving conditions. Both of us found that Shell gave us higher MPG! Ever since I just stick with Shell V-Power Plus it is one of the cheapest in my neighborhood.
Plus it is one of the cheapest in my neighborhood.For one thing "similar" driving isn't same, and I assume this was done on two DIFFERENT vehicles (even if same model) so you have things like how recently any maintenance was done, how each person drives, how much each uses the AC, etc.
Believe me, if one gas brand could prove it offered better mileage they'd never shut up about it.
01-14-11, 09:13 AM
#100
Lexus Champion
most of the time its Chevron w/Techron -- also I use Texaco because it has Techron as well.
Lots of articles about Techron helping to un-stick gas gauges, fuel sending units, etc.
and I get better MPG with Chevron in the Prius than when I fuel with Shell.
I refuse to use EXXON because of the Valdez disaster.
Lots of articles about Techron helping to un-stick gas gauges, fuel sending units, etc.
and I get better MPG with Chevron in the Prius than when I fuel with Shell.
I refuse to use EXXON because of the Valdez disaster.
01-14-11, 09:24 AM
#101
The following quote "There's little difference between brand-name gas and any other," -AAA spokesman Geoff Sundstrom is a joke. For one thing, have any of you met a AAA employee? I'm sure there are some bright ones, but to say they are somehow an expert on fuel (or oil is a joke). There is a reason they generally stick to the basics (increased traffic flow, fuel prices, etc) and that's because they don't have the engineering staff or studies to make such statements.
The truth is just because everyone's hates the oil industry (and probably rightfully so), that doesn't mean *everything* they (or the car manufacturers associated with top tier fuels) say is a lie.
As I mentioned before, several CAR MANUFACTURERS now support top tier fuels, and I quote "Six of the world's top automakers, BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen and Audi recognize that the current EPA minimum detergent requirements do not go far enough to ensure optimal engine performance. " -http://www.toptiergas.com/index.html
If several car manufacturers (and note TOYOTA) say the current EPA minimum detergent requirements do not go far enough to ensure optimal performance, perhaps...just perhaps....they know what they are talking about.
Am I overly **** about picking Top Tier fuels...not really, but do I currently use a Top Tier (non-ethanol) fuel when I'm at home? Yep, and I usually pay the same (or similar) price as cheap Flying J or Costco gas across the street.
Having said that, to each their own....
Last edited by rebs; 01-14-11 at 09:38 AM.
01-14-11, 10:04 AM
#102
You claim top tier fuel is functionally "better" so I ask for evidence of this.
If you have any objective testing to provide, by all means do so.
The fact there doesn't appear to be any... (and if there were it'd be advertised a lot more heavily by those companies) is fairly telling.
The following quote "There's little difference between brand-name gas and any other," -AAA spokesman Geoff Sundstrom is a joke. For one thing, have any of you met a AAA employee? I'm sure there are some bright ones, but to say they are somehow an expert on fuel (or oil is a joke). There is a reason they generally stick to the basics (increased traffic flow, fuel prices, etc) and that's because they don't have the engineering staff or studies to make such statements.
But here's some others who agree with him:
A twice-yearly gasoline-quality survey by the trade group Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers "hasn't identified any quality differences based on geography or brand," says Alliance spokesman Charles Territo.
"I see these ads on TV where Shell says, 'We filled up with Shell and some other gasoline and saw a difference,' and I think it's a myth," says Thomas Darlington, engineer and consultant at Air Improvement Resource in Novi, Mich., and formerly at the EPA.
"Gasolines today are very, very clean from the standpoint of not forming engine deposits" because of the EPA and industry requirements, he argues.
"Gasolines today are very, very clean from the standpoint of not forming engine deposits" because of the EPA and industry requirements, he argues.
"It's hype," says Dennis DeCota, executive director of the California Service Station and Automotive Repair Association. "It would be very hard to differentiate" among brands.
Hence why one should look for information from a source OTHER than the one most likely to benefit. And you've provided none.
As I mentioned before, several CAR MANUFACTURERS now support top tier fuels, and I quote "Six of the world's top automakers, BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen and Audi recognize that the current EPA minimum detergent requirements do not go far enough to ensure optimal engine performance. " -http://www.toptiergas.com/index.html
If several car manufacturers (and note TOYOTA) say the current EPA minimum detergent requirements do not go far enough to ensure optimal performance, perhaps...just perhaps....they know what they are talking about.
If several car manufacturers (and note TOYOTA) say the current EPA minimum detergent requirements do not go far enough to ensure optimal performance, perhaps...just perhaps....they know what they are talking about.
So again, if you've any actual evidence that gasoline from BP, Sunoco (US), Citgo, etc is somehow "bad" for your car compared to, say, Chevron, please provide it.
This seriously reminds me of the brake discussion... folks who don't know any better, and have nothing to support their claims, insisting that "bigger" rotors MUST always be better... just like the top tier fans insist that MORE detergent, even a tiny amount beyond the level that effectively cleans the motor, is useful.
01-14-11, 10:31 AM
#104
No, I put it on the person making a claim.
You claim top tier fuel is functionally "better" so I ask for evidence of this. No, I'll discount them because they are paid for by those people.
This seriously reminds me of the brake discussion... folks who don't know any better, and have nothing to support their claims, insisting that "bigger" rotors MUST always be better... just like the top tier fans insist that MORE detergent, even a tiny amount beyond the level that effectively cleans the motor, is useful.
You claim top tier fuel is functionally "better" so I ask for evidence of this. No, I'll discount them because they are paid for by those people.
This seriously reminds me of the brake discussion... folks who don't know any better, and have nothing to support their claims, insisting that "bigger" rotors MUST always be better... just like the top tier fans insist that MORE detergent, even a tiny amount beyond the level that effectively cleans the motor, is useful.
"Six of the world's top automakers, BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen and Audi recognize that the current EPA minimum detergent requirements do not go far enough to ensure optimal engine performance."
Your reference to Ford (whom I like) picking one specific gasoline brand/manufacturer really doesn't say anything specifically about Top Tier fuels...just that they currently have a contract with BP (who I personally wouldn't be all that excited about).
" Over the past several years, the minimum level of detergent additive required by the EPA has declined by an estimated 50%."
Yes, you quoted several people in your reply. Ironically, not one of those quotes had anything to do with an actual study (just like the AAA quote). I don't see how your quotes should be considered more valid over the studies you already acknowledged exist....
Yes, I totally concede that all of the studies would be backed by a car manufacturer or the oil industry (and therefore discounted by you). Studies cost money, and it's normal that since they asked for the study and acted on it...it's going to be their money behind the scenes. Despite the fact that you admitted such studies (and results) exist and that you discount them, that still doesn't invalidate the results ;-) That just means in your opinion the studies are not valid because of where the money comes from, and in my opinion I'll take the studies over your opinion (which appears not to be based on any study but the opinion of others).
I don't think this has anything to do with a brake discussion (or the brake pad discussion which I agree with you on) at all. You have a situation where car manufacturers (including ours) support a new standard for fuel requirements. You choose to not believe in it (and discount the studies you know exist because they paid for them), and that's your choice, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the "top tier" standard is the standard our car manufacturer supports.
Last edited by rebs; 01-14-11 at 11:00 AM.
01-14-11, 10:34 AM
#105
Lexus Champion
There is gas distributor/wholesaler in my town (Conner) that also owns a chain of stations and mini marts (Gas City).
I see their tankers all the time delivering gas to their stations as well as the Shell, BP, Speedway etc., etc. stations in the area (no Chevron around here).
The additives might be differrent for each brand but probably not by much.
IMO you can't go wrong with any of them and it's just a matter off personal preference and price.
I see their tankers all the time delivering gas to their stations as well as the Shell, BP, Speedway etc., etc. stations in the area (no Chevron around here).
The additives might be differrent for each brand but probably not by much.
IMO you can't go wrong with any of them and it's just a matter off personal preference and price.
