Rolexus600

I'm with her on that one!



Michael

Big Andy

Maybe I should point out that one of those rattles required a top engine strip down taking 5 hours and resulting in being off the road 2 days.Not what I would expect at less than 30k miles.

Rolexus600

Yes AND no. What I'm describing is the notion that the European cars are built to a higher standard. That's the generalization that I find many make. The only tangible advantage I can find (usually) is better performance.

I know a Mercedes-Benz E63 owner who was putting down the Cadillac CTS-V. With little to go on, he just kept referring to the Mercedes reputation for ironclad reliability to be able to get passed the close performance numbers. I asked if this was his first Mercedes. Alas, he admitted it was. He wasn't following cars from 98-05, so that would explain it.


Michael

IS-SV

Yes and no = a lot of maybe.

I see what you mean about the notion, but again I'm less interested in notions and more interested in hearing feedback from some of our knowledgeable owners.

Rolexus600

Well, if you click on the link to Audizine posted on the previous page you'll hear from owners who are chagrined about the brand. The same is true of the Bimmerfest forums.

My MB was a '98 model so my account might no longer be relevant. One of my best friends has been an MB sales rep for 8 years. Being close with the technical staff, he reports mostly good experiences with the occasional lemon. In my everyday experiences, the JD Powers reports seem to be commensurate with local owner complaints.


Michael

IS-SV

Well, whatever. The reality is the many knowledgeable CL posters go beyond notions in their understanding of cars.

My MB rep has been with Mercedes for 25 years and my inde tech that maintains mine is a certified master tech, not that any of this matters.

I too owned a 98, 01 and currently own a 08. The 01 was crap, the 08 has been very reliable. Yes, we know about JD Powers here.

Rolexus600

Yes, I can tell many go beyond notions, but statistics are statistics. I'm sure everyone who is an auto enthusiast is aware of JD Powers. Moving along, I'm sure yor independent can tell you from his personal experience that 98-05 were dark years for MB. Even if someone were to own one that has never skipped a beat, it's undeniable that the materials used in most of the models in that range do little to justify the hefty price tag. The 01 you mentioned would fit squarely into that category.


Michael

skim07

http://www.carsdirect.com/used-car-b...-of-the-decade

I may have confused best used car with most reliable. I stand corrected.

Audizine post you linked is for RS4's V8 which is different from B7 S4 V8. RS4 uses direct injection and its not only Audi that's' suffering carbon build up. Ferrari and other brands using direct injections have had issues with carbon build up and not as bad as RS4's. B7 RS4's carbon build up is a well known issue just as M3 has issues with tearing rear subframe.

skim07

I misunderstood your porsche comment. To be honest I really didn't have any serious issues with my S4 during 3+ years of ownership. I experienced faulty coil packs, and those were replaced by the dealer under warranty. I also had headlight bulb flickering issues but that was also replaced under warranty. I believe the culprit for Audi flickering headlight is the D1C design with built in ignitor, but that's just my own conspiracy theory.

I love the styling of new E class but I just can't stand the cheap interior. My boss leased a 2011 E 4M in white with black roof which I think is a fantastic looking car. My mother's old E class is not as sexy but its a tank. Built solid.
With a nice all season tire she feels confident enough to drive through a snow storm.

M3 was very reliable. I've not had any problems other than expensive Inspection 1 and 2. $1800 to 2200 for Inspection 2 with valve adjustments. Tires are an annual affair if you manage to conserve tread on the street. $1500 to get PS2 mounted. Replace rear tires next season for another $800. Then $1500 following season to replace all 4. on and on and on. That's just street driving, if you participate in autocross and DE tire replacements will be multiplied. Track pads, racing brake fluids, engine oil, trans oil, diff gear oil, etc needs to be replaced more often.

Rolexus600

Did you prefer the M3's performance to the S4's or vice versa?


Michael

IS-SV

Yes, going beyond notions and specifically the 01 Mercedes C240 was crap with numerous electrical, mechanical, suspension problems documented.

skim07

I think Jeremy Clarkson said it best in this S4 vs M3 comparison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYF0Zmtf8b8

Michael, below is my comment on both cars.

B7 S4 - engine note to die for. highway cruiser with torque on demand. Interior is top notch and silky napa leather is better than any other I've experienced. Buttons and switches feel unusally high end. (for comparison sake, think Chevy buttons and switches) OEM Recaro seat is amazing and supportive.
When it comes to handling the S4 was bit nose heavy. Car is also heavy and you can feel it. Steering is bit light and overpowered. This is a great all around daily car for any region.

E46 M3 - great handling with slight understeer, lovely sound of 8,000RPM engine (even if its only a striaght 6), steering and brake response is far superior to S4. Torque is something that you'll wish for. Also the exhaust note leaves you wanting for more grunt rather than high pitched metallic rasp. seats are unsupportive for motorsports. day to day ride is rough and crappy. Driving fun factor is much higher than S4.

Above 2 cars are completely different animals. S4 is well rounded comfortable luxury sports sedan. M3 is a party animal that likes to be rev'd and thrown around a fast corner. When we're talking just performance and driving factor, I choose M3. I would much rather live with an S4, however.

Rolexus600

Which car do you currently enjoy more, your IS or your C class? My good friend was in that position last Jaunary and went with a IS250 AWD because he preferred the styling.


Michael

IS-SV

I enjoy both, but the cars are very different.

IS350 pros: 306 horsepower w/efficiency, quality, reliability, soft leather, plush yet sporty interior, sleek style (but mine is on 19's w/Eibach 350 springs=Fsport springs).

C300 pros: chassis (super stiff structure, excellent ride and stability/control at high speeds), roominess (especially back seat room vs IS350), comfort for long hauls over 100+ miles, sport sedan style (OEM sport model), reliability.

PhantomZX

Hard to believe this one..

Engine failures BMW refused to acknowledge as a defect until it eventually issued a recall:
http://members.roadfly.com/jason/m3engines.htm

E46 subframe problem:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1253761