2012 Honda Civic Released (Updated)...Hyundai lol'd
04-23-11, 08:29 AM
#286
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I guess we could say the same for BMW and Porsche but for them, it's just different. They are modeled on endless evolution on the same idea. That doesn't work with mainstream models.
What we have here is a car that is dated before it even comes out. Imagine that this is the Civic we have to look at through 2016!!
04-23-11, 08:58 AM
#287
Yeah, I am sure Honda/Acura and buyers want them to jump right into Direct Injection just to say they have it especially seeing how reliable it is turning out to be. The last time I looked the IS250 thread dealing with Direct Injection issues/carbon buildup is well over 20 pages long, those owners must love needing major engine cleaning/maintenance on their cars with less then 60K miles. Audi, BMW, VW, GM, and Porsche models with direct injection are all having issues stemming from Direct Injection systems. Some Porsche GT3 owners are thankful the GT3 engine does not have DI and some speculate Porsche is not utilizing DI in that motor because of DI issues.
There is a reason Honda is not bothering with DI and buyers are not demanding it, the benefits do not come close to outweighing all the issues, complexity, and expense of DI. DI is not all its hyped up to be, you can get power/fuel economy through other means. I am glad Honda did not just jump into it only to then have a bunch of issues later down the line. Unless they are able to perfect it to where it is completely reliable/does not cause carbon buildup/oil consumption/degredation issues, it is not noisy, and will not force owners to have to make a very expensive repair/replacement down the line I doubt you will be seeing DI even from Honda's newer engines due soon and I doubt people are going to complain much. I don't want DI after reading about all the problems unless all its issues have been addressed.
Once you have significant carbon buildup you lose all the advantages DI was supposed to give you-more power/better fuel economy. If you have to pay hundreds of dollars to get your engine taken apart and cleaned you are well behind in any fuel savings you might have had from DI.
I am disappointed in the new civic also but this was pretty much expected considering the civic normally does not change much from generation to generation after a complete redesign like last generation. Bland and reliable is what most people want especially in this segment and is what sells these days, look at the Corolla for no further proof which also has no DI, only has a 4 speed auto/5 speed manual with 132hp and it is a huge seller.
There is a reason Honda is not bothering with DI and buyers are not demanding it, the benefits do not come close to outweighing all the issues, complexity, and expense of DI. DI is not all its hyped up to be, you can get power/fuel economy through other means. I am glad Honda did not just jump into it only to then have a bunch of issues later down the line. Unless they are able to perfect it to where it is completely reliable/does not cause carbon buildup/oil consumption/degredation issues, it is not noisy, and will not force owners to have to make a very expensive repair/replacement down the line I doubt you will be seeing DI even from Honda's newer engines due soon and I doubt people are going to complain much. I don't want DI after reading about all the problems unless all its issues have been addressed.
Once you have significant carbon buildup you lose all the advantages DI was supposed to give you-more power/better fuel economy. If you have to pay hundreds of dollars to get your engine taken apart and cleaned you are well behind in any fuel savings you might have had from DI.
I am disappointed in the new civic also but this was pretty much expected considering the civic normally does not change much from generation to generation after a complete redesign like last generation. Bland and reliable is what most people want especially in this segment and is what sells these days, look at the Corolla for no further proof which also has no DI, only has a 4 speed auto/5 speed manual with 132hp and it is a huge seller.
and thats why there is no V8 in Acura?
Excuses, Excuses :-)
04-23-11, 09:57 AM
#288
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04-26-11, 08:53 AM
#289
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Hilarious PDF a Honda fan and true car guy made, calling out Honda on this Civic.
http://www.gooley.net/images/ServiceBulletin.pdf
lol. So the entire industry is moving to DI but somehow Honda is better for not having it
. Its not like they don't have recalls and issues. They do like everyone else and we have seen them WITHOUT advanced technology.
Its funny you point out and find one thread here but ignore all the threads Acura/Honda owners have with issues. You also told us the tranny issue with no huge deal so really, you have no leg to stand on.
Hell owners are already complaining about the new 6 speed.
Honda's engineering is in the FCX Clarity. They have ignored the rest of the lineup and they are way behind everyone else in regards to technology and even basics. THat is a fact. They don't lead anywhere, not with reliability, not with MPG, not with power, not with features, not with options, with NOTHING.
Honda is smart though. They realize rabid fanbois are happy with the perception they are efficient and technologically advanced when the fact is they are not the most fuel efficient and have tech on par with GM of the 1990s.
Basically. 
http://www.gooley.net/images/ServiceBulletin.pdf
Yeah, I am sure Honda/Acura and buyers want them to jump right into Direct Injection just to say they have it especially seeing how reliable it is turning out to be. The last time I looked the IS250 thread dealing with Direct Injection issues/carbon buildup is well over 20 pages long, those owners must love needing major engine cleaning/maintenance on their cars with less then 60K miles. Audi, BMW, VW, GM, and Porsche models with direct injection are all having issues stemming from Direct Injection systems. Some Porsche GT3 owners are thankful the GT3 engine does not have DI and some speculate Porsche is not utilizing DI in that motor because of DI issues.
There is a reason Honda is not bothering with DI and buyers are not demanding it, the benefits do not come close to outweighing all the issues, complexity, and expense of DI. DI is not all its hyped up to be, you can get power/fuel economy through other means. I am glad Honda did not just jump into it only to then have a bunch of issues later down the line. Unless they are able to perfect it to where it is completely reliable/does not cause carbon buildup/oil consumption/degredation issues, it is not noisy, and will not force owners to have to make a very expensive repair/replacement down the line I doubt you will be seeing DI even from Honda's newer engines due soon and I doubt people are going to complain much. I don't want DI after reading about all the problems unless all its issues have been addressed.
Once you have significant carbon buildup you lose all the advantages DI was supposed to give you-more power/better fuel economy. If you have to pay hundreds of dollars to get your engine taken apart and cleaned you are well behind in any fuel savings you might have had from DI.
I am disappointed in the new civic also but this was pretty much expected considering the civic normally does not change much from generation to generation after a complete redesign like last generation. Bland and reliable is what most people want especially in this segment and is what sells these days, look at the Corolla for no further proof which also has no DI, only has a 4 speed auto/5 speed manual with 132hp and it is a huge seller.
There is a reason Honda is not bothering with DI and buyers are not demanding it, the benefits do not come close to outweighing all the issues, complexity, and expense of DI. DI is not all its hyped up to be, you can get power/fuel economy through other means. I am glad Honda did not just jump into it only to then have a bunch of issues later down the line. Unless they are able to perfect it to where it is completely reliable/does not cause carbon buildup/oil consumption/degredation issues, it is not noisy, and will not force owners to have to make a very expensive repair/replacement down the line I doubt you will be seeing DI even from Honda's newer engines due soon and I doubt people are going to complain much. I don't want DI after reading about all the problems unless all its issues have been addressed.
Once you have significant carbon buildup you lose all the advantages DI was supposed to give you-more power/better fuel economy. If you have to pay hundreds of dollars to get your engine taken apart and cleaned you are well behind in any fuel savings you might have had from DI.
I am disappointed in the new civic also but this was pretty much expected considering the civic normally does not change much from generation to generation after a complete redesign like last generation. Bland and reliable is what most people want especially in this segment and is what sells these days, look at the Corolla for no further proof which also has no DI, only has a 4 speed auto/5 speed manual with 132hp and it is a huge seller.
. Its not like they don't have recalls and issues. They do like everyone else and we have seen them WITHOUT advanced technology.Its funny you point out and find one thread here but ignore all the threads Acura/Honda owners have with issues. You also told us the tranny issue with no huge deal so really, you have no leg to stand on.
Hell owners are already complaining about the new 6 speed.Honda's engineering is in the FCX Clarity. They have ignored the rest of the lineup and they are way behind everyone else in regards to technology and even basics. THat is a fact. They don't lead anywhere, not with reliability, not with MPG, not with power, not with features, not with options, with NOTHING.
Honda is smart though. They realize rabid fanbois are happy with the perception they are efficient and technologically advanced when the fact is they are not the most fuel efficient and have tech on par with GM of the 1990s.
04-26-11, 12:06 PM
#292
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Awesome PDF . Mass email that to Honda execs .
You forgot to mention Toyota's D4-S system, which uses a combination of direct and port injection. You also forgot to mention how there are almost no complaints about models that use Toyota's D4-S injection system. You want to know why? It's because Toyota's D4-S does not suffer from typical DI problems.
If Toyota was able to make a system that does not suffer from typical DI problems, Honda can't?
What a silly excuse that is IMO. Is this the same Honda that has had a BIG reputation for being an engineering company all this time? Plain and simple, it just sounds like Honda lacks the engineering know-how to make a DI system that doesn't suffer from typical DI problems, which is what Toyota managed with D4-S. Toyota is well aware of conventional DI problems.
. Mass email that to Honda execs .Yeah, I am sure Honda/Acura and buyers want them to jump right into Direct Injection just to say they have it especially seeing how reliable it is turning out to be. The last time I looked the IS250 thread dealing with Direct Injection issues/carbon buildup is well over 20 pages long, those owners must love needing major engine cleaning/maintenance on their cars with less then 60K miles. Audi, BMW, VW, GM, and Porsche models with direct injection are all having issues stemming from Direct Injection systems. Some Porsche GT3 owners are thankful the GT3 engine does not have DI and some speculate Porsche is not utilizing DI in that motor because of DI issues.
There is a reason Honda is not bothering with DI and buyers are not demanding it, the benefits do not come close to outweighing all the issues, complexity, and expense of DI. DI is not all its hyped up to be, you can get power/fuel economy through other means. I am glad Honda did not just jump into it only to then have a bunch of issues later down the line. Unless they are able to perfect it to where it is completely reliable/does not cause carbon buildup/oil consumption/degredation issues, it is not noisy, and will not force owners to have to make a very expensive repair/replacement down the line I doubt you will be seeing DI even from Honda's newer engines due soon and I doubt people are going to complain much. I don't want DI after reading about all the problems unless all its issues have been addressed.
Once you have significant carbon buildup you lose all the advantages DI was supposed to give you-more power/better fuel economy. If you have to pay hundreds of dollars to get your engine taken apart and cleaned you are well behind in any fuel savings you might have had from DI.
I am disappointed in the new civic also but this was pretty much expected considering the civic normally does not change much from generation to generation after a complete redesign like last generation. Bland and reliable is what most people want especially in this segment and is what sells these days, look at the Corolla for no further proof which also has no DI, only has a 4 speed auto/5 speed manual with 132hp and it is a huge seller.
There is a reason Honda is not bothering with DI and buyers are not demanding it, the benefits do not come close to outweighing all the issues, complexity, and expense of DI. DI is not all its hyped up to be, you can get power/fuel economy through other means. I am glad Honda did not just jump into it only to then have a bunch of issues later down the line. Unless they are able to perfect it to where it is completely reliable/does not cause carbon buildup/oil consumption/degredation issues, it is not noisy, and will not force owners to have to make a very expensive repair/replacement down the line I doubt you will be seeing DI even from Honda's newer engines due soon and I doubt people are going to complain much. I don't want DI after reading about all the problems unless all its issues have been addressed.
Once you have significant carbon buildup you lose all the advantages DI was supposed to give you-more power/better fuel economy. If you have to pay hundreds of dollars to get your engine taken apart and cleaned you are well behind in any fuel savings you might have had from DI.
I am disappointed in the new civic also but this was pretty much expected considering the civic normally does not change much from generation to generation after a complete redesign like last generation. Bland and reliable is what most people want especially in this segment and is what sells these days, look at the Corolla for no further proof which also has no DI, only has a 4 speed auto/5 speed manual with 132hp and it is a huge seller.
You forgot to mention Toyota's D4-S system, which uses a combination of direct and port injection. You also forgot to mention how there are almost no complaints about models that use Toyota's D4-S injection system. You want to know why? It's because Toyota's D4-S does not suffer from typical DI problems.
If Toyota was able to make a system that does not suffer from typical DI problems, Honda can't?
What a silly excuse that is IMO. Is this the same Honda that has had a BIG reputation for being an engineering company all this time? Plain and simple, it just sounds like Honda lacks the engineering know-how to make a DI system that doesn't suffer from typical DI problems, which is what Toyota managed with D4-S. Toyota is well aware of conventional DI problems.
04-26-11, 04:19 PM
#294
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05-04-11, 08:13 PM
#295
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Si tested by Edmunds... uglier, no faster and slower than the last model....sad
http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...-si-coupe.html
2012
Acceleration
0-30 (sec): 2.6 (2.9 with T/C on)
0-45 (sec): 4.6 (4.8 with T/C on)
0-60 (sec): 6.9 (7.1 with T/C on)
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 6.6 (6.9 with T/C on)
0-75 (sec): 10.1 (10.2 with T/C on)
1/4-Mile (sec @ mph): 15.1 @ 93.1 (15.3 @ 93.1 with T/C on)
Braking
30-0 (ft): 29
60-0 (ft): 120
Handling
Slalom (mph): 67.3 (62.8 with T/C OFF)
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.86 (0.84 with T/C OFF)
2006 Si Coupe Test Numbers
Acceleration
0-45 mph (sec.) 4.8
0-60 mph (sec.) 7.2
0-75 mph (sec.) 10.1
1/4-mile (sec. @ mph) 15.1 @ 93.8
Braking
30-0 mph (ft.) 31.4
60-0 mph (ft.) 122.7
Handling
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 67.80
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) .84
09 Sedan from Edmunds:
0 - 30 (sec): 3.0
0 - 45 (sec): 4.8
0 - 60 (sec): 7.0
0 - 75 (sec): 10.1
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 15.3 @ 93.0
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 6.7
30 - 0 (ft): 32
60 - 0 (ft): 123
Braking Rating: Good
Slalom (mph): 68.8
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.89
Handling Rating: Excellent
Db @ Idle: 45.1
Db @ Full Throttle: 85
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 69.4
http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...-si-coupe.html
2012
Acceleration
0-30 (sec): 2.6 (2.9 with T/C on)
0-45 (sec): 4.6 (4.8 with T/C on)
0-60 (sec): 6.9 (7.1 with T/C on)
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 6.6 (6.9 with T/C on)
0-75 (sec): 10.1 (10.2 with T/C on)
1/4-Mile (sec @ mph): 15.1 @ 93.1 (15.3 @ 93.1 with T/C on)
Braking
30-0 (ft): 29
60-0 (ft): 120
Handling
Slalom (mph): 67.3 (62.8 with T/C OFF)
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.86 (0.84 with T/C OFF)
2006 Si Coupe Test Numbers
Acceleration
0-45 mph (sec.) 4.8
0-60 mph (sec.) 7.2
0-75 mph (sec.) 10.1
1/4-mile (sec. @ mph) 15.1 @ 93.8
Braking
30-0 mph (ft.) 31.4
60-0 mph (ft.) 122.7
Handling
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 67.80
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) .84
09 Sedan from Edmunds:
0 - 30 (sec): 3.0
0 - 45 (sec): 4.8
0 - 60 (sec): 7.0
0 - 75 (sec): 10.1
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 15.3 @ 93.0
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 6.7
30 - 0 (ft): 32
60 - 0 (ft): 123
Braking Rating: Good
Slalom (mph): 68.8
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.89
Handling Rating: Excellent
Db @ Idle: 45.1
Db @ Full Throttle: 85
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 69.4
05-10-11, 08:29 AM
#296
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http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...ack/index.html
Finishes 3 outta 3
Finishes 3 outta 3
"We're underwhelmed -- disappointed, even -- that Honda couldn't come up with more substantial, more exciting changes to set this Civic apart from its predecessor. In more than one instance, the changes even appear to move the Civic backward relative to the competition."
05-10-11, 10:59 AM
#298
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
