View Poll Results: Will Manual Cars Last?
Yes, they will always be around.
30
44.78%
No, they will be obsolete someday.
37
55.22%
Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll
Will Manual Cars Ever Be Obsolete?
02-09-11, 05:31 AM
#46
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02-09-11, 10:32 AM
#48
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Better in what? Performance? That's not what I was talking about. It's a given that most modern sport automatic transmissions are capable of outperforming a manual tranny.
I was referring to the driving experience that a manual transmission gives over an auto. I wouldn't touch a sports car unless it was a true manual. And that's a completely subjective point of view.
This is something that many don't seem to understand. Most people buying new cars with manual transmissions aren't getting them for increase in performance, but rather the driving experience. I don't mind sacrificing a fraction of a second for a more enjoyable drive (again, a subjective argument).
I was referring to the driving experience that a manual transmission gives over an auto. I wouldn't touch a sports car unless it was a true manual. And that's a completely subjective point of view.
This is something that many don't seem to understand. Most people buying new cars with manual transmissions aren't getting them for increase in performance, but rather the driving experience. I don't mind sacrificing a fraction of a second for a more enjoyable drive (again, a subjective argument).
and the whole control and driving experience, I have driven BMW M3 and M5 with the auto, and you have the experience, your not missing anything
whatever your more comfortable in
02-09-11, 10:45 AM
#49
Lexus Champion
I've heard every side of the story, but in the end whatever floats your boat, but I have had plenty of friends who decided against manuals cause they want to sell them to anyone not have to wait
and the whole control and driving experience, I have driven BMW M3 and M5 with the auto, and you have the experience, your not missing anything
whatever your more comfortable in
and the whole control and driving experience, I have driven BMW M3 and M5 with the auto, and you have the experience, your not missing anything
whatever your more comfortable in
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...sent-ever.html
They were plenty engaging and would have been even more difficult to drive hard at the limit with the third pedal. One thing is for sure, I definitely would have been slower in a manual, even though I am quite capable with a manual.
02-09-11, 11:11 AM
#50
Some posts in this threads are very silly, and basically come down to "I drive a manual so I'm better than you" and vice versa.
When you get past that point, it comes down to this - manuals are becoming more and more obsolete, and will mostly continue to exist in specialty, niche vehicles.
The reason that manuals are still offered in many pedestrian vehicles, is so that the manufacturer can make auto an option and charge an extra $500-2,500 for it. And sometimes, vice versa.
When you get past that point, it comes down to this - manuals are becoming more and more obsolete, and will mostly continue to exist in specialty, niche vehicles.
The reason that manuals are still offered in many pedestrian vehicles, is so that the manufacturer can make auto an option and charge an extra $500-2,500 for it. And sometimes, vice versa.
02-09-11, 11:50 AM
#51
Not necessarily true. For example, 3rd gen Acura TL with Automatic does not cost any more than the 3rd gen Acura TL with Manual. Acura has incorporated BREMBRO brake system with thicker anti-roll bars (which costs more) on the Manual version to even out the cost with the Auto version.
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10 char
02-09-11, 02:10 PM
#55
Lexus Fanatic
What I feel that most people are missing is that the conventional manual isn't just about control, it's involvement. When you are carving up a nice piece of road, matching engine speeds and gears just perfectly you feel like part of the machine and need to be so much more aware of the conditions than with an epicycle auto of robot manual. I have noticed a huge difference amonst my peers between those that learnt on a manual car and those that didn't. Those that have only ever known the auto pay so much less attention to the traffic and conditions, wafting along in their own world. When the manual dies (and it is likely it will on road vehicles) there will be no more drivers.
Hyperbolic I know, but I really do feel passionately about it.
Hyperbolic I know, but I really do feel passionately about it.
But I can't get excited about the hyperbolic and romantic notions, I don't really feel passionately about it and if the manual dies it won't bother me.
02-09-11, 06:11 PM
#56
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But if you're looking to buy the Cruze, the automatic costs $925 more than the 6 speed and gets 5 MPG fewer. The choice is a no brainer.
02-09-11, 09:01 PM
#57
Lexus Champion
Now that is very wrong... not the exotic part, but when you said buyers can't afford auto? Auto's generally cost a thousand bucks if not more. Even Hyundai "Accent" has auto available. Oops you are wrong again. Mazda only allowed manual for "Mazdaspeed3" model for better performance and better driving dynamics. I know you are getting real defensive because you drive an IS-F which only comes in "Auto".
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Bottom line is you'll be staring at the tailights of the faster shifting DCT/PDK/etc. all day. Enjoy being slower 'cause you can't row the gears like you think you can.
I could give a rat's azz about defending anything. Drive whatever you want. You want to make lame arguments that have zero basis on fact.
Btw, I drive autos so that my wife can safely drive them as well. C63 was an option as was the M3 DCT...didn't even look at the stick. Bottom line is that I have no interest in teaching her how to drive a stick in a +400hp car and I'm not selfish enough to buy $70k cars that she can't drive....yet.
The IS F "auto" gives me the best of both worlds....faster when pushing it hard....convenient when cruising or in traffic.
02-09-11, 10:57 PM
#58
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I've heard every side of the story, but in the end whatever floats your boat, but I have had plenty of friends who decided against manuals cause they want to sell them to anyone not have to wait
and the whole control and driving experience, I have driven BMW M3 and M5 with the auto, and you have the experience, your not missing anything
whatever your more comfortable in
and the whole control and driving experience, I have driven BMW M3 and M5 with the auto, and you have the experience, your not missing anything
whatever your more comfortable in
I have no problem sacrificing some performance for a better driving experience. If its something I buy [sports car], it's because I'm going to want to enjoy it as much as possible.
But like you said, 'what ever floats your boat'. It all comes down to the individual. So it's pretty pointless to go back and forth arguing about this.
I'm glad automatic transmissions are improving. All I hope for is that the sports car industry does not give up on manual transmissions and give their customers an option to decide. Like someone said, they're probably stick around to a smaller niche of performance vehicles.
P.S. I probably wouldn't get an M5 with a manual transmission anyway.
02-10-11, 06:57 AM
#59
What I feel that most people are missing is that the conventional manual isn't just about control, it's involvement. When you are carving up a nice piece of road, matching engine speeds and gears just perfectly you feel like part of the machine and need to be so much more aware of the conditions than with an epicycle auto of robot manual. I have noticed a huge difference amonst my peers between those that learnt on a manual car and those that didn't. Those that have only ever known the auto pay so much less attention to the traffic and conditions, wafting along in their own world. When the manual dies (and it is likely it will on road vehicles) there will be no more drivers.
Hyperbolic I know, but I really do feel passionately about it.
Hyperbolic I know, but I really do feel passionately about it.
The driving experience is shaped by a lot more than switching gears, which I think has become far too cliche, in combination with the backroad/twistie thing, IMO. I can say without a doubt, satisfaction for me, comes from total effort required to cut down on lap times. The feeling of objective improvement is just unmatched, especially when you analyze brake points and corner entry, or exit speeds, etc. or if you're lucky, have better drivers to point them out and give guidance. In my experience, that's the significant portion of driving enjoyment and involvement, not so much how my motor stays in its powerband.
Coincidentally, I saw someone stall their car going uphill, yesterday, who could've easily caused an accident (just a light jab at the topic).
02-15-11, 12:28 PM
#60
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Wanted to chime in. I've been having manual fever as of late. Thing is Lexus manuals suck and are in anemic cars. So basically it would mean a jump from Lexus unless an older IS 300 was turned into a track car or something.
I think they will go away sadly and/or manual retrofits will be a business in the future for those that want to row. There is just something about 3 pedals, even if the car is slower, less efficient and you are not a race car driver. There is simply an interaction that a DSG/Auto/PDK cannot have. Manual/Auto type can of course both put huge grins on a person's face.
Never thought I'd see Ferrari dump manuals but if they go that route that is a huge sign. Its also a Europe thing, Porsche states 60-65% of sales in Europe will be PDK equipped 911s for instance!
I think they will go away sadly and/or manual retrofits will be a business in the future for those that want to row. There is just something about 3 pedals, even if the car is slower, less efficient and you are not a race car driver. There is simply an interaction that a DSG/Auto/PDK cannot have. Manual/Auto type can of course both put huge grins on a person's face.
Never thought I'd see Ferrari dump manuals but if they go that route that is a huge sign. Its also a Europe thing, Porsche states 60-65% of sales in Europe will be PDK equipped 911s for instance!