Och

iTrader: (3)

X6 isnt equipped with this system yet.

And with those tires, nothing will make it perform well in snow. Which won't prevent a soccer mom in NYC to drive it 20mph over the speed limit on a snow covered local road while texting.

lucasb7

My opinion is that with the correct tires, anything with all wheel drive will be drivable but they might not transfer torque as quickly or have the ability to vector side to side, though VSC can do most of that if you're just using it to get unstuck.

My personal preference would be Quattro w/Sports Diff simply because of the instantaneous torque transfer inherent to the mechanical Torsen Diff. Sh-AWD takes a close second. At times when I am trying to get the MDX unstuck, you can definitely see that it really can't tell where it has traction and it just electronically transfers it front back, side to side by some predetermined way. But on the road it is very natural and, well, brilliant.

The Quattro vs. X-Drive was an ad too, payed for by BMW. It basically picks out the one weakness of Quattro: having absolutely no traction on one axle. Torsen differentials multiply the torque, most to a 1:5 ratio for slipping vs traction axle, so if there isn't any traction on one, what is there for it to multiply. If the Audi had traction control on, it would've braked the front wheels to give the differential the illusion that there is some grip there.

The Acura commercial obviously plays with the traction control of the Q7 and RX, but it does, just like the BMW commercial, show one of the advantages of their car. I am just happy with all of the testing they do at that facility for over 6-weeks a year--it certainly pays off.

I've found very few actual, non-biased snow performance comparisons.

The X6 is actually the first BMW with "Dynamic Performance Control" which is BMW's torque vectoring system. From what I've heard neither Audi S4 w/Sports Diff nor DPC transfer torque quite as aggresively as sh-awd.

The problem is clearly with the tires and the way he lost momentum in the Top Gear test.

Och

iTrader: (3)

I'm not sure whether in Acura or BMW ads traction control was off.

You see, the problem doing this trick with traction control (also sometimes called E-LSD), is that the traction control system can apply brakes to the slipping axle, but it also cuts throttle as well when it detects slip. It doesn't work very well in reality, and especially when trying to go up a steep grade, it probably wont do the trick.

LexFather

^^^^good summary Lucas and och

UDel

Subaru and Audi were considered to have the best AWD systems for snow in the past but Acura is generally considered to have the best AWD system now especially for driving in the snow/ice. Since your concerned about reliability I would probably stay away from Audi. Tires make a very big difference in snow driving and even a fwd car with good snow/all season tires can do very well driving in the snow. Even if you have a awd car/SUV that does well in the snow it still does not mean it will not slide, get stuck, or can lose control if you are not careful. I have read/seen mixed results for Infiniti's awd system and would say a FX would be a pretty poor vehicle in the snow considering how sport biased it is and they are usually equipped with wide low profile summer type tires. A awd G37 would be a better Infiniti for snow in my opinion.

I see more people in big SUVs get in accidents in the snow because they think those vehicles are invincible in the snow, they drive them too fast, and then either lose control or are unable to stop in a short enough distance because that big heavy SUV needs much longer distances to stop that smaller lighter cars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae8rL...1&feature=fvwp

LexFather

All those ugly Acura need to awd drift off the coast of Greenland into the ocean. The reason they are good in the snow is the ugly scares snow away

mmarshall

For a good snow sedan around 30K, it's hard to beat the Subaru Legacy, though, if you want more underbody clearance for deeper snow and are willing to give up the sedan body style, it's even harder to beat the Outback.

For a Legacy/Outback, though, I'd wait till at least July-August, when the 2012's come out. Both the 2010 and 2011 Legacy/Outback have had front-end suspension/steering issues, which still may not be totally cured.

roushracin

Thanks for all the replies! Like I said, I don't want Audi just because I've heard so much of reliability issues and they are way too pricey. My wife and I do have an '09 Acura MDX and ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT! With all the snow storms we've had the past 6 weeks, the MDX gets through everything. I do love the Acura's SH AWD but hate the new style TL! I've thought about Subaru also, just don't know a lot about them. Also, we have 2 kids (3 and infant) so it's not like I could get a WRX (which I would love) and be ok with it...no room for the car seats.

Och

iTrader: (3)

^^^ Unfortunately you're right about TL styling, its awful.

Have you looked at Acura RL's? Used they can be had for 25-30k, come with SH-AWD standard, spacier and far better built than TLs (and many other cars in its class), and look pretty classy.

mmarshall

Gotta agree with the RL, though, as Och points out, you're not going to get a new one for 30K......it will likely be a couple of years old. As far as build-quality goes, it is one of the best.......combining Swiss-Watch precision with tank-like solidness.

BTW, if you want to look at an American-nameplate AWD sedan for 30K or under (brand-new), the Ford Fusion has an excellent reputation. According to Consumer Reports, The AWD version is not quite as reliable as the excellent FWD version, but is still average or better in reliability. The upmarket Lincoln MKZ version, done on the same platform, has not been quite as reliable as the cheaper Fusion.

UDel

If you hated the beak on the TL it is being refreshed and has been toned down, the front and rear have been refreshed too and it gains a 6 speed auto plus some other enhancements. A thread on here has some pics on the TL refresh. I also agree with Och, a used or new RL is an excellent choice if you don't like the new TLs styling but want the SH-AWD, the RL comes standard with SH-AWD.

dunnojack

the lexus awd is looking pretty useless there.

so acura and bmw have torque vectoring?
and lexus, infiniti, audi have mechanical?

i understand that they can all perform with the right tires...... but how do you rank them, most advanced to least advanced?

LexFather

^^^ It was an Acura commercial, what did you think would happen?

Good point about a used RL, re-sale is horrid and you can get a great deal on one. Though I'd get the G37x first. You really can't go wrong with the G37x to me for the price.

mmarshall

Vehicle weight, of course, plays a role, but one of the main factors in stopping-distances on wet/slick surfaces is the width and profile of the tires. SUVs tend to have higher-profile, narrower-width tires, which, all else equal, aids traction and shortens stopping distances on slick surfaces. On dry pavement, however, it is generally the opposite.....lower, wider tires, with a larger footprint, will usually give you better performance.

lucasb7

Acura, BMW, Nissan, and Audi have torque vectoring. I think some Porsche's have it but I don't know enough about it to talk about it. To my knowledge Audi's sport diff is an option in the S4, standard in RS5 but unavailable in other models. BMW's system was introduced with the X6 but may now be standard in the X5 as well.

In terms of transferring torque front to rear, Audi, VW, MB, Lexus GX, LX, GS, and IS and Porsche use mechanical differentials. Lexus RX, BMW X-Drive, and Acura SH-AWD all use electronically controlled center differentials to send power front to back. This makes them a bit slower to transfer power during slippage but, in the case of the Acura and BMW, allows them to send more power to the rear during spirited driving.

My Ranking for Sporty AWD & High Speed Snow driving (best to worst): SH-AWD, Quattro w/Sport Diff, X-Drive, Porsche(w/o vectoring), Quattro, Lexus GS/IS, 4-Matic, 4-Motion, Lexus GX/LX, Lexus RX.

Poor weather @ Low speeds: Lexus GX/LX, Quattro assuming both axles have traction, SH-AWD