Is Lexus going to offer a unibody SUV with third row seating anytime soon?
11-02-15, 07:59 PM
#31
This is BS. Its one thing to build "fun, emotional" cars, but you still have to build what the public wants. Its not a Maserati...its a Lexus and there needs to be some emphasis put on practicality.
My family and lots of other families need/want 3 rows. I guess we're going somewhere else.
My family and lots of other families need/want 3 rows. I guess we're going somewhere else.
If they're willing to lose some sales to elevate the brand, it says a lot about how serious they are about taking Lexus to the next level.
11-03-15, 07:38 AM
#32
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I can see it from the corporate viewpoint though. They're trying to rebrand Lexus and change the way people perceive the brand. Its imperative to stay on message if that is the goal.
If they're willing to lose some sales to elevate the brand, it says a lot about how serious they are about taking Lexus to the next level.
If they're willing to lose some sales to elevate the brand, it says a lot about how serious they are about taking Lexus to the next level.
Until that happens, they are just plain dumb and fooling nobody but themselves not to milk the easy 3-row unibody LSUV market.
Last edited by ydooby; 11-03-15 at 07:43 AM.
11-03-15, 07:41 AM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
Is Lexus going to offer a unibody SUV with third row seating anytime soon?
Originally Posted by ydooby
I will take "how serious they are about taking Lexus to the next level" seriously when they dare to ditch the real elephant in the room, the ES. Until that happens, they are just plain dumb and kidding themselves not to milk the easy 3-row unibody LSUV market.
Until that happens, they are just plain dumb and kidding themselves not to milk the easy 3-row unibody LSUV market.They are full of it.
11-03-15, 01:07 PM
#34
I agree 100%. You see how far that commitment goes, the new RX is still on a derivative FWD platform, the NX is on a derivative FWD platform. Both of those vehicles could have been put on the excellent RWD GS/IS platform had they truly been serious about building great cars vs chasing volume and profit.
They are full of it.
They are full of it.
Even you should know that.
11-03-15, 04:36 PM
#35
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by ydooby
Lexus is just plain dumb and fooling nobody but themselves not to milk the easy 3-row unibody LSUV market.
And you can bet the monthly rent that there are a lot more people in the market that feel exactly the same way..........ready to take their money elsewhere. 
11-03-15, 09:47 PM
#36
Did you even read the article?
The decision is not to irrationally make one just for sales but find a way to get a cross over to appeal to people emotionally, part of the strategy that Lexus has employed the last few years. They're taking a calculated risk to lose some sales to continue building Lexus' new brand perception.
Why go off script just to chase sales numbers and more revenue? Lexus doesn't need money (thats what Toyota is for), they're RE-building a brand.
Luxury companies would kill for this type of opportunity to re-brand and not have to obsess over cash flow and profit margins.
"If your focus is selling more cars, as many as possible, a station wagon would be of interest. ... When you say 'emotional and cool,' it's not a station wagon."
The same goes for big, 7-seat SUVs/crossovers that U.S. dealers have been clamoring for, Toyoda said.
"Dealers are telling me that all the time," Toyoda said of requests for a 7-seat crossover. "My answer is: 'That's the Toyota brand.'"
Lexus dealers say they want a 3-row crossover to go up against the Infiniti QX70 and Audi Q7. Indeed, expectations are running high that Lexus will introduce 1 largely based on the redesigned RX.
But Lexus executives have far from signed off on such a plan, said Takayuki Katsuda, chief engineer of the RX. In fact, adding a 3rd row and preserving the new design language is much more complicated than simply stretching the chassis, he said.
"It's practically impossible," Katsuda said.
Product planners still are brainstorming a way to square emotional design with 7-seat functionality, he said.
The same goes for big, 7-seat SUVs/crossovers that U.S. dealers have been clamoring for, Toyoda said.
"Dealers are telling me that all the time," Toyoda said of requests for a 7-seat crossover. "My answer is: 'That's the Toyota brand.'"
Lexus dealers say they want a 3-row crossover to go up against the Infiniti QX70 and Audi Q7. Indeed, expectations are running high that Lexus will introduce 1 largely based on the redesigned RX.
But Lexus executives have far from signed off on such a plan, said Takayuki Katsuda, chief engineer of the RX. In fact, adding a 3rd row and preserving the new design language is much more complicated than simply stretching the chassis, he said.
"It's practically impossible," Katsuda said.
Product planners still are brainstorming a way to square emotional design with 7-seat functionality, he said.
When Lexus went with the aggressive spindle corporate face, so many "niche enthusiasts" cried and whined how it is not classy and how Lexus will lose sales by turning off buyers, now F-Sports have proven themselves over non F-sport models by taking larger and larger chunks of overall model sales.
Anybody here seem to think that buyers are choosing the F-Sports because of the rims or mufflers? lol
11-04-15, 06:48 AM
#37
Lexus Fanatic
I don't know why you think that Lexus lacks the knowledge that they're losing potential sales over 'temporarily' forgoing a 7 seat crossover.
Did you even read the article?
The decision is not to irrationally make one just for sales but find a way to get a cross over to appeal to people emotionally, part of the strategy that Lexus has employed the last few years. They're taking a calculated risk to lose some sales to continue building Lexus' new brand perception.
Why go off script just to chase sales numbers and more revenue? Lexus doesn't need money (thats what Toyota is for), they're RE-building a brand.
Did you even read the article?
The decision is not to irrationally make one just for sales but find a way to get a cross over to appeal to people emotionally, part of the strategy that Lexus has employed the last few years. They're taking a calculated risk to lose some sales to continue building Lexus' new brand perception.
Why go off script just to chase sales numbers and more revenue? Lexus doesn't need money (thats what Toyota is for), they're RE-building a brand.
11-04-15, 07:45 AM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
Thats Lexus whole point, they want to build emotional cars that appeal to enthusiasts, he's saying that they don't want to build a 7 seat crossover because that vehicle is not "emotional" and "isn't something an enthusiast buys" and that sort of vehicle "is better left to the Toyota brand". Well...luxury cars on downmarket FWD economy platforms aren't something that an enthusiast buys, and its something that is better left to the Toyota brand.
I don't personally have an issue with these vehicles being on these Toyota platforms, I owned two of them. It makes financial sense for Toyota, and look at the sales, their top 3 selling vehicles are all FWD Toyota platforms...the market speaks. BUT...thats evidence that he's full of it...if they really cared more about building great cars that people will love vs "chasing volume" they would do away with the FWD Toyota platform cars that do not elevate the brand...all they do is sell at high volume.
Why go off script just to chase sales numbers and more revenue? Lexus doesn't need money (thats what Toyota is for), they're RE-building a brand.
Luxury companies would kill for this type of opportunity to re-brand and not have to obsess over cash flow and profit margins.
Luxury companies would kill for this type of opportunity to re-brand and not have to obsess over cash flow and profit margins.
As a Lexus enthusiast and longtime customer, if they are REALLY committed to building better cars before volume cars even at the expense of volume, then I want them to own that and do it. Otherwise its all just BS, and I want my three row crossover.
Last edited by SW17LS; 11-04-15 at 07:52 AM.
11-04-15, 08:16 AM
#39
Lexus Fanatic
11-04-15, 08:39 AM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
Not at this point no, but once they get bigger and can get themselves in and out and sit in booster seats, etc yeah I would.
11-05-15, 12:03 AM
#41
I disagree completely when were talking about enthusiast oriented vehicles in a premium price point.
Thats Lexus whole point, they want to build emotional cars that appeal to enthusiasts, he's saying that they don't want to build a 7 seat crossover because that vehicle is not "emotional" and "isn't something an enthusiast buys" and that sort of vehicle "is better left to the Toyota brand". Well...luxury cars on downmarket FWD economy platforms aren't something that an enthusiast buys, and its something that is better left to the Toyota brand.
Then why not do away with the cars that hold them back in the minds of enthusiasts despite being high sales volume cars? The ES and RX. As long as those FWD Toyota platform cars are there there is always going to be ammunition that a Lexus is just a rebadged Toyota, and its always going to dampen what they're trying to do. After all, they don't have to worry about cash flow and profit margins right? They have a great, bespoke chassis in the GS that could have easily accommodated a new RX and you could have had a vehicle that was a legitimate X5 or GLE (ML), Cayenne competitor...but they didn't do that they went the safe route of building another unexceptional FWD Toyota platform RX...this time with edgy styling. A car that will sell to volume, NOT to enthusiasts as it always has.
As a Lexus enthusiast and longtime customer, if they are REALLY committed to building better cars before volume cars even at the expense of volume, then I want them to own that and do it. Otherwise its all just BS, and I want my three row crossover.
Thats Lexus whole point, they want to build emotional cars that appeal to enthusiasts, he's saying that they don't want to build a 7 seat crossover because that vehicle is not "emotional" and "isn't something an enthusiast buys" and that sort of vehicle "is better left to the Toyota brand". Well...luxury cars on downmarket FWD economy platforms aren't something that an enthusiast buys, and its something that is better left to the Toyota brand.
Then why not do away with the cars that hold them back in the minds of enthusiasts despite being high sales volume cars? The ES and RX. As long as those FWD Toyota platform cars are there there is always going to be ammunition that a Lexus is just a rebadged Toyota, and its always going to dampen what they're trying to do. After all, they don't have to worry about cash flow and profit margins right? They have a great, bespoke chassis in the GS that could have easily accommodated a new RX and you could have had a vehicle that was a legitimate X5 or GLE (ML), Cayenne competitor...but they didn't do that they went the safe route of building another unexceptional FWD Toyota platform RX...this time with edgy styling. A car that will sell to volume, NOT to enthusiasts as it always has.
As a Lexus enthusiast and longtime customer, if they are REALLY committed to building better cars before volume cars even at the expense of volume, then I want them to own that and do it. Otherwise its all just BS, and I want my three row crossover.
Enthusiasts =/= new/younger buyers. You don't need to be an enthusiast to love the F-sport design enough to buy it over a base model. I don't think you are understanding that not all car buyers are like Club Lexus forum members.
A buyer can walk in the dealership and pick up a F-sport NX or RX without thinking twice about the FWD just because they like the design, it has an identity, it has a presence and they like that about the car.
How much quantitative respect does Lexus get if the RX/NX/ES models were RWD? You can re-invent your own car brand without changing which wheels propel your car forward.
The whole point of your original argument was that Lexus was going to miss out on sales if they did not come up with a 3 row crossover. The article already explained that they're wiling to lose some sales to continue with making "emotional" cars.
11-05-15, 08:48 PM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
Like I said, I had no problem with my FWD ES sedans, but Lexus wasn't trying to get me to make compromises in ride and comfort and edgy styling without providing the basis from which I could derive some sort of payoff for those compromises. Look at the reviews of the latest ES, the reduction in ride quality comes up a lot, and given the FWD layout...there is no upside to that tradeoff in ride quality. A hard riding aggressive looking "emotional" FWD ES sedan is a car not worth owning and driving because there is no payoff, while a classy, comfortable riding, conservative FWD ES sedan is, the limitations of its FWD layout aren't important because of the overall purpose of the car.
Lexus needs to be careful that they deliver an actual product that fulfills the promise and the selling proposition the exterior of the car is selling.
The article already explained that they're wiling to lose some sales to continue with making "emotional" cars.
His assertion that somehow a 3 row crossover would derail their mission is BS when they just unveiled their best selling vehicle...and its AGAIN a platform engineered from a lesser Toyota, its FWD, and has a Toyota power plant. THAT derails the mission. If they were REALLY serious that vehicle and the NX would be on the IS/GS platform...whatever the cost.
Last edited by SW17LS; 11-05-15 at 08:54 PM.
11-05-15, 09:18 PM
#44
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11-06-15, 03:46 PM
#45
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Front Page Coverage
interesting discussion. thought the front page crowd would think so too...
https://www.clublexus.com/articles/n...re-keeping-it/
https://www.clublexus.com/articles/n...re-keeping-it/
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