MM Review: 2011 Acura TSX Sport Wagon
#31
Lexus Fanatic
You two guys, without realizing it, pretty much agreed with the point I was trying to make. What I was saying is that the Venza, Outback, XC-70, and similiar vehicles sell precisely because they have the "crossover" equipment and options on them that, IMO, the good-looking TSX Sport wagon should have gotten....and didn't. Instead, the brilliant Honda marketers put that stuff (V6, AWD, high-stance suspension, etc....) on the awkward-looking Crosstour....and then wonder why it doesn't sell (though I do see some here in the D.C. area).
I fully expect the TSX wagon to have mediocre sales like the Crossturd thing.
btw, incuded in what I was responding to was this:
"The older Accord and Camry wagons were quite popular here, too......until they were dropped in the 1990's. None of these wagons, BTW, was discontinued because of poor sales.....their manufacturers simply convinced themselves that Americans disliked wagons, but it had little basis in fact. But a number of wagons continue in production....and they sell, even in America."
The Camry and Accord wagons were not popular, they were dropped because of poor sales and low demand, they did not sell in large quantities. And these wagon sales continued to slide downwards over the final years, not the growth market major automakers want to invest in.
Last edited by IS-SV; 03-08-11 at 11:17 AM. Reason: sp
#32
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
anyway, mike (mmarshall), good review thanks, and glad you noticed the responsiveness of the 4. I drive an '09 tsx now and then (with 4 cyl) and I'm surprised how peppy it is and steers/corners great. imo it's a FAR better car than say an IS250, with a big trunk, useful back seats, that I believe also fold down.
Though the TSX wagon's rear seats and headroom are (barely) one step above the IS250's Munchkin level, I still wouldn't call them useful for larger adults.....certainly not someone my size or Mike's (1SICKLEX).
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
you mean like the high selling HS? or the ct that i bet has a LOT LESS interior room and will probably be more expensive (at least what dealers actually get in stock)?
cts wagon is likely 20k more.
acura has a bunch of fail in its line-up but the tsx and mdx are winners.
cts wagon is likely 20k more.
acura has a bunch of fail in its line-up but the tsx and mdx are winners.
The HS might "look" like a Corolla but its not a Corolla rebadge. Its based on the Avensis and is completely different inside and out.
The TSX "is" an Accord. Period. A rebadge (though the Euro Accord is a solid car in itself)
The TSX is nothing more than their cheaper version of the ES. It got bigger, fatter and gained a V-6 no one buys. It got less sporty. I agree its a good car and IMO their best sedan.
They advertise it as a "sports car". That is ridiculous.
They advertise it as "technology". It has none but a fancy NAV.
The HS is a hybrid that gets 35 MPG. It offered LED lights. It offers a Heads Up Display, front and rear cameras, lane assist, radar cruise, remote touch and the car is 85% recyclable. The plastics are a special eco based material. It has semi-analine leather.
That is technology. Even if it looks worse than a TSX, which is pretty bad
#34
Lexus Champion
You two guys, without realizing it, pretty much agreed with the point I was trying to make. What I was saying is that the Venza, Outback, XC-70, and similiar vehicles sell precisely because they have the "crossover" equipment and options on them that, IMO, the good-looking TSX Sport wagon should have gotten....and didn't. Instead, the brilliant Honda marketers put that stuff (V6, AWD, high-stance suspension, etc....) on the awkward-looking Crosstour....and then wonder why it doesn't sell (though I do see some here in the D.C. area).
I'm glad to see they are trying the TSX wagon, I just don't think it will do very well and raising the price even higher by adding AWD, V6 etc. wouldn't help sales due to the stigma wagons have in the U.S.
#36
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
They advertise it as a "sports car". That is ridiculous.
The HS is a hybrid that gets 35 MPG. It offered LED lights. It offers a Heads Up Display, front and rear cameras, lane assist, radar cruise, remote touch and the car is 85% recyclable. The plastics are a special eco based material. It has semi-analine leather.
That is technology. Even if it looks worse than a TSX, which is pretty bad
That is technology. Even if it looks worse than a TSX, which is pretty bad
the car i presume is an accord wagon (estate) in europe, where wagons are still very popular, so i assume there will be the majority of sales anyway.
#38
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
The TSX is nothing more than their cheaper version of the ES.
It got bigger, fatter and gained a V-6 no one buys. It got less sporty.
If they would give it the SH-AWD (which they haven't), the sedan's V6 option would then make more sense. And, of course, if they would just do it, a wagon V6/AWD/raised-suspension would make an excellent Subaru competitor...I think it would get a lot more sales than the awkward-looking Honda Crosstour.
I agree its a good car and IMO their best sedan.
They advertise it as a "sports car". That is ridiculous.
#39
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Thanks.
The TSX Wagon is a good prospect for those who want a well built, reasonably-priced, reliable, FWD wagon with good handling. My main complaint (and I know I've said it several times) is that the goofy-looking Honda Crosstour got the equipment/options that the TSX should have gotten instead.
No reason to buy any Acura right now.
#40
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Thanks.
Like I said in previous posts, the FWD/4-cylinder-only configuration may hurt sales some. If they had equipped it like the Honda Crosstour, it would probably have more appeal.
I myself like the wagon, though, even the way it is now. If I go for a FWD car instead of an AWD car next time (particularly a Subaru AWD), the TSX wagon is going to be very high on my shopping list.
I wonder how many of these they will sell. i'm thinking not many.
I myself like the wagon, though, even the way it is now. If I go for a FWD car instead of an AWD car next time (particularly a Subaru AWD), the TSX wagon is going to be very high on my shopping list.
#41
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I'm glad to see they are trying the TSX wagon, I just don't think it will do very well and raising the price even higher by adding AWD, V6 etc. wouldn't help sales due to the stigma wagons have in the U.S.
#42
Lexus Fanatic
And the RDX is a crossover SUV, just like the Venza and Outback are crossover SUV's. The Venza and Outback will easily outsell the TSX wagon (and RDX), per the historical sales data already available on the 3 of 4 models.
#43
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Not really, since he was responding to your suggestion about making TSX with more "crossover equipment" to be more successful. Apples and apples if the TSX had been designed to be a crossover. But the point was that Acura already has a crossover, so no need (it's called the RDX, and it doesn't sell especially well, maybe the beak isn't helping).
And the RDX is a crossover SUV, just like the Venza and Outback are crossover SUV's. The Venza and Outback will easily outsell the TSX wagon (and RDX), per the historical sales data already available on the 3 of 4 models.
And the RDX is a crossover SUV, just like the Venza and Outback are crossover SUV's. The Venza and Outback will easily outsell the TSX wagon (and RDX), per the historical sales data already available on the 3 of 4 models.
Sorry, I just disagree with your premise that the Venza, Outback, Crossover, XC-70, Audi All-Road, etc..... are SUV's. I simply don't see it like that. Though some people classify them this way, I consider them pretty much what they are......conventional AWD sedan/station-wagons with the ground clearance raised a couple of inches for deep snow, and maybe some very mild off-roading in easy conditions. As I see it, that is substantially different from crossover, car-based, unibody true SUVs like the Highlander, MDX, RDX, RAV-4, etc.....
In fact, the whole concept of the full-time AWD sedan/station wagon with raised-suspension goes back to the AMC Eagle and Eagle SX-4 of the early 1980s (I'm sure you, with your car knowledge, remember them). One would hardly describe them as SUV's.....even car-based ones. They were simply redone AMC Hornet/Concords and Gremlin/Spirits.
We can all go on and on with these arguements, but I think it is just a matter of how each of us sees, and perceives, the basic design/execution of these vehicles. So maybe we should move on to other topics with the TSX wagon.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-08-11 at 03:54 PM.
#44
Lexus Fanatic
Sorry, I just disagree with your premise that the Venza, Outback, Crossover, XC-70, Audi All-Road, etc..... are SUV's. I simply don't see it like that. Though some people classify them this way, I consider them pretty much what they are......conventional AWD sedan/station-wagons with the ground clearance raised a couple of inches for deep snow, and maybe some very mild off-roading in easy conditions. As I see it, that is substantially different from crossover, car-based, unibody true SUVs like the Highlander, MDX, RDX, RAV-4, etc.....
In fact, the whole concept of the full-time AWD sedan/station wagon with raised-suspension goes back to the AMC Eagle and Eagle SX-4 of the early 1980s (I'm sure you, with your car knowledge, remember them). One would hardly describe them as SUV's.....even car-based ones. They were simply redone AMC Hornet/Concords and Gremlin/Spirits.
We can all go on and on with these arguements, but I think it is just a matter of how each of us sees, and perceives, the basic design/execution of these vehicles. So maybe we should move on to other topics with the TSX wagon.
In fact, the whole concept of the full-time AWD sedan/station wagon with raised-suspension goes back to the AMC Eagle and Eagle SX-4 of the early 1980s (I'm sure you, with your car knowledge, remember them). One would hardly describe them as SUV's.....even car-based ones. They were simply redone AMC Hornet/Concords and Gremlin/Spirits.
We can all go on and on with these arguements, but I think it is just a matter of how each of us sees, and perceives, the basic design/execution of these vehicles. So maybe we should move on to other topics with the TSX wagon.
Moving on (on to the topic for a change) is the best idea in a long time on this thread. The TSX wagon will outsell the RL at least, measured that way a sure-fire success!
Last edited by IS-SV; 03-08-11 at 05:02 PM. Reason: sp
#45
Lexus Champion
Yup, the car buying public will have the final say on the TSX wagon. We'll see in a few months how well it does in the real world.
Acura's job is to put out a product with the best chance to sell and make them an acceptable profit on each one sold.
Our job is to second guess and speculate.
Acura's job is to put out a product with the best chance to sell and make them an acceptable profit on each one sold.
Our job is to second guess and speculate.