Infiniti comes out swingin in the luxury hybrid segment.
03-21-11, 03:20 PM
#31
no DI, just Atkinson cycle... better mileage comes with AT gearbox with longer gearing (just like this Infinity actually).
03-21-11, 03:28 PM
#32
- change between ICE and EV is not as smooth (jerky low speed)
- real life consumption is going to suffer
- much more complicated than PSD, hence possible reliability issues.
and just reading Sonata Hybrid review, as well as Touareg comparo vs RX450h, these were confirmed.
So what’s not to love? Fuel economy. I barely touched 40 in a largely highway stint. When did 40 become disappointing? When the 274-horsepower Sonata 2.0T achieved the same. In suburban driving, I managed “only” 31.3 despite a very light foot. The 36 promised by the EPA numbers wasn’t happening. And while electric-only operation might be possible up to 62 MPH, it doesn’t actually happen unless you’re extremely light on the gas. A tailwind and/or a downhill slope might also be required. The Toyota-type system seems to have a clear advantage in city and suburban driving. In these conditions the Ford Fusion Hybrid tops the Sonata by about 10 MPG. Drive the Sonata Hybrid aggressively, and suburban fuel economy falls below 20. A Ford Fusion Hybrid still managed 27 when subjected to my lead foot.
Pretty much exactly the same comment from german mag comparing Touareg Hybrid vs RX450h - slow speed jerky, much worse real life mileage (50% worse on the same course vs RX450h, 6l/100km more than official consumption).
03-21-11, 04:31 PM
#33
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I smell biased or poor journalism.
I could hit 40 MPG downhill in my 12 year old Subaru too.
You mean 35.
I barely touched 40 in a largely highway stint. When did 40 become disappointing? When the 274-horsepower Sonata 2.0T achieved the same.
The 36 promised by the EPA numbers wasn’t happening.
03-21-11, 05:25 PM
#34
bad journalism since you dont like the results? you will see rest of them report the same... I doubt german mag didnt want to like Touareg over RX450h either.... Touareg uses similar system too.
03-21-11, 05:53 PM
#35
i dont know how can he be biased if he likes ford and toyota hybrid system and doesnt like sonatas hybrid system but likes sonata 4cly engine very much.
conclusion would be that he likes sonata 4cly turbo but not sonata hybrid... points he made are exactly the points any well informed hybrid owner would tell you as their concern when he saw the specs - putting AT transmission into hybrid.
not to mention that they use li-po batteries and still only got the same trunk as in Camry, thus negating main point of li-xx batteries - better packaging.
big contrast to Prius V, where Toyota engineers managed to fit complete li-ion battery between front seats!
03-21-11, 06:01 PM
#36
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But of course there are MPG difference between the Fusion and Sonata hybrids. Yes, the Sonata gets fewer MPGs in the city. We know this from EPA ratings. But we also know that EPA says the Sonata hybrid is 4 MPG better than the Fusion. So where is the comparision of numbers there?
03-21-11, 08:53 PM
#38
But of course there are MPG difference between the Fusion and Sonata hybrids. Yes, the Sonata gets fewer MPGs in the city. We know this from EPA ratings. But we also know that EPA says the Sonata hybrid is 4 MPG better than the Fusion. So where is the comparision of numbers there?
i dont get what you mean :-).
FFH and TCH use fundamentally different technology compared to HSH, Touareg Hybrid and old Honda Accord Hybrid.
Article pointed out that while 40mpg on highway was achievable, in suburban use mileage dropped to 30 (not 36 as per EPA) and when press, it went below 20, while FCH did 27 when pressed.
Those are quite large differences, once again mirrored in VW Hybrid with similar tech, where system performs well under optimized for lab test but in reality, it is not match to hybrids with PSD.
Lab test are just that lab tests... EPA test last changes were done in 2009 and now in 2011 a lot of new cars are coming optimized for these new tests.
It gives impression that they are spending less fuel than pre-2010 cars which got downrated in 2009 tests... but this is quite often not true.
You often mention how Toyota needs to get improvements to their engines but for instance as we can see on fueleconomy.gov, 2006 Corolla with ZR engine and 4 speed Auto is actually doing 10% better than 2011 Elantra in real life and manual model is doing 5 mpg better than EPA numbers.
If you check hyundai forums, people are complaining that they could exceed their EPA ratings with their old Corollas but not in new Elantra.
03-22-11, 07:46 PM
#39
Commercials
The long-running ad wars between Audi and BMW are just one example of taking the fight to the competition in the effort to sell more cars, and this week both Corvette and Infiniti have thrown down their gloves at respective rivals. But does this sort of advertising pay off in the end?
We're not sure of the final effect it has on bottom-line sales figures--though we're looking into the matter--but our gut instinct is that it's little more than fuel for the existing fan-boy fire.
Take Corvette's call-out to its competitors in GT racing, for example: BMW, Porsche, and Ferrari all face off against Corvette Racing's loosely ZR1-based machines, but this weekend at Sebring, the ad that posited the Vette's superiority ended up looking a bit lame in comparison to the race results, which saw BMW take 1st and 2nd in class, with the Corvettes coming in 3rd and 4th. The American supercoupe still beat the Porsche and Ferrari entries, but does the braggadocio come off when the results on the track don't match?
Infiniti has taken a similar tack with its latest M35 Hybrid commercial. Blasting past a Lexus GS hybrid on the freeway, the M35h driver sits smugly in the cockpit while the Lexus driver grimaces in consternation and the voiceover asks (presumably rhetorically), "Why join the pursuit when you can take the lead. The Infiniti M Hybrid. The high performance hybrid." Aside from poking fun at Lexus' slogan and making a case for the target M Hybrid driver being even more of a jerk than the Lexus hybrid buyer, what's the point here? Wouldn't some track footage, tires squealing and engine growling, be a better enticement to people actually interested in an efficient performance/luxury sedan?
Let us know what you think, since you, the buying enthusiast public, are, after all, the ultimate bellwether for the success of failure of these ads.
03-22-11, 08:13 PM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
dude in the lexus is driving 20 mph on the freeway.
no worries. their mockery could end soon. 4GS is on the way.
as long as the 4GS is not a big FAIL, infiniti M should be DOA.
oh yeah. still looks like big roach:
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