mmarshall

Sometimes, with very large metropolitan areas, it's difficult to get "facts" on the data, as you describe it. Not all sources agree, for example, on where the regions start and stop, and what counties, suburbs, and smaller towns are included....especially in the enormous SoCal region. When judging car sales, the (approximite) size of the area, average disposable-income level, number of auto-dealers per square mile, amount and extent of rapid-transit all play a big role. While exact numbers are not always possible, the D.C. area is clearly one of the largest new-car markets in the country, but it is safe to say that we don't by more new cars than L.A. does...I'm sure you and I both will agree on L.A. being the center of the country's auto-culture.

IS-SV

Now we've got some waffling (above) I see, civic pride I guess for fun.

I could say SF/Oakland/SJ metro area is clearly one of the largest new car markets in the country (which it happens to be, hardly going out on a limb) but who here really cares to hear me pontificate about it.

Agreed southern Cal is still car capital .

mmarshall

I don't think either of us are pontificating about it....nor is it a matter of civic pride, per se. It was a legitimate discussion, though I agree somewhat off-topic. So, then, back to the GX.

IS-SV

Pontification/speculation/reaching/redundant/stretching/unsupported/offtopic/whatever not much interest regardless.

Oh yeah, the GX...

As you pointed out about high GX price, I think it keeps sales volume low.

Blackraven

@spwolf

I will agree with you that 1KD-FTV is a good Toyota diesel engine. It may not be the best (1VD-FTV in the Land Cruiser 200 is still the best Toyota diesel engine to-date) nor is it flawless (the D-4D engines in my country were plagued with injector issues prior to the recall)...............but it is a good engine and you can't under estimate that.

However, I don't know if it's true (even over there in Europe) but in here, diesel engines carry a price premium.

Heck, I was even shocked. TMPI introduced the 4.0 liter petrol/gasoline engine version for the Toyota Land Cruiser Prado LC 150 (with 1GR-FE engine) and holy crap, it costs less than the 3.0 D-4D model.

I found that surprising and a bit puzzling

spwolf

Injector issues had to do with sulphur buildup in injectors after many miles, i never saw many of those actually happening... all diesels have problems, usually a lot bigger than those (for instance smaller units in rav4 had 10x more problems).

diesels carry premium in europe as well, but in our market GR V6 version was priced as more expensive than 3.0l D4D... But it is crazy to buy it as it spends 2x more fuel and you could never sell it used here.

Toys4RJill

I was looking around to see what some others think about this vehicle. We are in the market for a either a crew pickup or solid SUV. We once owned a LX in the late 90's so we were spoiled a bit.

We put the GX on the list (because of the previous GX) but it didn't take long to realize it was not for us. The interior is a bit of a let down compared to old GX. This model just seems more cramped in the front, less upright than the last model.

We have crossed it off our list and to be honest, the price seems a bit to high IMO.


As for thr reviewer, the 4Runner and the GX460 share very little aside from the frame and some model transfer cases. The 4Runner has a different engine, tranny, rear axle, hatch, suspensions, headlights, etc than the GX.

They really should not be compared or referenced.

Just an FYI.

mmarshall

The GX is certainly not the smoothest, quietest Lexus model on the market. That's why, when I did the review, I mentioned that most people, unless they did heavy towing or off-roading, would probably prefer the RX. And the RX, of course, is substantially cheaper, unless you get the hybrid.


I agree to an extent. The running-gear is different, but I did mention that the GX doesn't offer a V6. But, coming from the same frame and platform, they do tend to drive and ride somewhat alike. The GX's suspension is not as soft as that of the RX, and, to my driving-senses, is pretty close to the 4Runner's in terms of ride/handling.



Good luck in your search for an SUV. You may not agree with my entire review, but I hope it helped. That's why I do them.

Toys4RJill

The RX is totally out of the question. Too small, too car like, and it does not have real 4WD. It don't need to even drive it to nix it. I also like a 'truck" ride over a soft smooth ride.

We are trying to decide between the a crew 4WD Tacoma with a short bed or a trail Toyota 4Runner.

What is your thoughts on the Tacoma? Have you reviewed either?

mmarshall

OK.....most people like comfort, but, for your specific purposes, then, I guess a tough frame comes first. The new Dodge Ram pickup, BTW (which I've reviewed), somehow manages to give both a silky ride (by truck standards) AND tough off-road/towing ability.....Dodge engineers have done wonders with the frame and suspension. But, of course, it is a Chrysler product, with the possible reliability onus, and, is also new and untested in the long run.

Haven't fully-reviewed the present-generation Tacoma or 4Runner. But, from my observations, the Tacoma is somewhat larger, less-stodgy in its looks, and designed a little more for style than its strictly-utilitarian predecessor. Its interior, though, like some other recent Toyotas, has a lot of unimpressive, thin, hard-plastic....but if a work vehicle is all you want, then interior trim may not be much of an issue to you. Same with the new 4Runner...I wasn't impressed with its interior at all, but there is no denying its appeal as a good off-roader. The 4Runner can be expected to be a little noisier than the GX and maybe ride a little firmer. It, of course, lacks the trick height-adjustable suspension found on the GX and LX. Both the 4Runner and GX are very tall in relation to their width, which would suggest a high center-of-gravity. I wouldn't push either of them too hard around sharp curves, even with the standard VSC stability-system, as the Toyota/Lexus VSC, to my knowledge, doesn't incorporate the additional Roll-Control function for body-lean that the Volvo and Ford SUVs do.

BTW, the same 4Runner mechanicals are offered, along with a much more unique body/interior and retro-personality, in the FJ Cruiser. And you can get the FJ in some wild colors, too.

Toys4RJill

Ram is too big. No need for it.

As for the 4Runner, looks like it will win out for us. We look the overall layout of the inside. Harder materials are ok, we want cloth seats with power adjustment, a rear 4WD (had full time on our LX, was good but we like 2WD to 4WD).

Also, the MPG is 19 combined which is decent.

A big selling point is the payload which is +1500lbs which is higher than the GX and more than a crew Taco.

Now it just comes down to finding the right deal.

mmarshall

OK....good luck in the shopping. Now may be one of the better times of the year for deals, as sales are often down. Most people are busy shopping for the ususal holiday stuff, not vehicles.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i'd be surprised if the gx is roomier than the rx as thegx is tall and narrow with the horrible barn door at back and fold down 3rdrow seats that eat huge amts of cargo room.

Having said that, i'm surprised mmarshall says it's not quiet - i thought the gx i drove was very quiet and had an amazingly smooth ride.

And you're considering a tacoma? Even with crew cab it may gave 4 doors but it's not that roomy.

Toys4RJill

I meant the RX is out of the question and too carlike in that its not a truck with real 4WD etc. Its really a car on stilts.

We have always had a truck/SUV and our previous one was a Lexus LX which we bought in 98. At that time, there was no crew Tacoma and we didn't really like the 4Runner at the time. The LX was the perfect size, was tough as nails, and was nice inside with features like power seats, auto air, etc. At that time, there was nothing like it from Toyota or Lexus. The only thing we did not like was full time 4wd as the MPG was about 13 combined. Also, it did require a significant amout of service.

So fast forward to now, the new LX is out of the question becuase of cost, non truck like features like 20inch rims (my 98 had 16inch) and it just seems so plush. We have a propery outside the city and we go out there all the time in the winter and we do summer gardening stuff, supplies, haul patio stones or whatever etc.

So the things we like about the trail 4Runner are:

Love the styling
Size is about a mid-size truck
Very roomy
19 MPG combined (seams reasonable)
Has a rear power outlet for our mini fridge
Cloth seats with power control
$17k less than a GX base


Compared to Tacoma crew short bed:
$5k cheaper than 4Runner
Has a bed
No power seats
About the same size as the 4Runner inside

Tundra is way too big.

mmarshall

Well, of course, it not exactly a noisy vehicle, but, in my experience, I did not find it particularly quiet by Lexus standards. The RX, for example, had, in my experience, noticeably less road/wind noise and a silkier-feeling drivetrain. But the RX, of course, lacks the GX's solid frame and towing/off-road ability.