View Poll Results: Do you want a V6, cheaper, LS?
Yes
22
51.16%
No
21
48.84%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll
Will There Ever Be A V6 LS?
03-20-11, 06:59 PM
#31
Lexus Fanatic
some of you just keep on talking about the power from new v6 vs old v8, but you are missing that the tq from the v6 can hardly match that of the v8, even the old ones. my gs350 is making the same hp as my old gs400 and sc430, it's even faster, but on high speed pick up and smoothness, i would still take my old v8 any day. when it comes down to luxury car, smoothness and quietness is the key, and tq helps a lot. v8 shines big time here.
on the other hand, why not compare new v6 vs new v8? the v8 now pushes even more hp and more tq, making the ride even better and smoother.
not discrediting all the new v6 here, they are efficient and powerful. but when pushing something that's north of 4000lb, tq from displacement plays a good role too
on the other hand, why not compare new v6 vs new v8? the v8 now pushes even more hp and more tq, making the ride even better and smoother.
not discrediting all the new v6 here, they are efficient and powerful. but when pushing something that's north of 4000lb, tq from displacement plays a good role too
Right as usual Henry. The torque in my LS460 is insane relative to what the V6 in my GS350 provided. I think the LS puts down close to 100 ft/lb more torque. That is what pushes you back in your seat. People usually focus on hp when what they will usually enjoy on most driving situations is added torque
03-20-11, 07:08 PM
#33
Well that's quite a stretch isn't it? The RL only has one engine available and that's the V6. If Toyota decides to offer a V6, then they HAVE to keep the V8. If Toyota wants a V6-only LS, then that's a different story. A larger 3.8L V6 wouldn't be such a bad idea. Give it a good set of gear ratios and it'll probably surpass the previous 300hp 4.0L V8 in the GS400 in every single category.
03-20-11, 08:20 PM
#34
Lexus Fanatic
Not only do I think there will be a V6 LS I would be very surprised if the next version does not have some kind of V6 option whether it be a NA v6, v6 hybrid, or FI v6. Mercedes and BMW are offering some kind of 6 cylinder for their flagship sedans so it would be no surprise for Lexus to offer one. Modern V6 have plenty of power to move a LS sized sedan which is smaller and lighter then the competition. It was not too long ago that the LS430 had 290hp so a v6 with over 306hp is not going to feel sluggish at all.
For people saying a 6 cylinder does not equal luxury, that may have been true in some circumstances in the past when 6 cylinders were only making 200-225hp but with most modern 6 cylinders getting smoother, offering more torque, and some putting out over 300hp with decent fuel economy it is different now, there is nothing wrong with offering 6 cylinder options like they have been offering in Europe and other markets for years on luxury flagships. A Porsche Panamera has a 6 cylinder option.
A base LS priced under 60K with a 320hp or 330hp v6 that got decent fuel economy would be a huge hit. There would still be the v8 option for buyers who want the added torque and smoothness and were willing to pay for it.
You can blame tough government EPA regulations as to why you are seeing more and more v8 options disappear as well as 4 cylinders replacing 6 cylinders, v8s replacing v10/v12, 6 cylinders replacing v8s, smaller engines being offering where they were never thought to be offered, etc. Unfortunately it is only going to get worse in the years to come.
For people saying a 6 cylinder does not equal luxury, that may have been true in some circumstances in the past when 6 cylinders were only making 200-225hp but with most modern 6 cylinders getting smoother, offering more torque, and some putting out over 300hp with decent fuel economy it is different now, there is nothing wrong with offering 6 cylinder options like they have been offering in Europe and other markets for years on luxury flagships. A Porsche Panamera has a 6 cylinder option.
A base LS priced under 60K with a 320hp or 330hp v6 that got decent fuel economy would be a huge hit. There would still be the v8 option for buyers who want the added torque and smoothness and were willing to pay for it.
You can blame tough government EPA regulations as to why you are seeing more and more v8 options disappear as well as 4 cylinders replacing 6 cylinders, v8s replacing v10/v12, 6 cylinders replacing v8s, smaller engines being offering where they were never thought to be offered, etc. Unfortunately it is only going to get worse in the years to come.
03-20-11, 08:48 PM
#35
Henry, the 1UZ-FE from the 98+ era are substantially more powerful than the early 90s 1UZ. I wouldn't consider the 98+ V8 to be too "old". Have you driven a 1990 LS400 or even a 1992 SC400? Those engines have less torque than the current 3.5L V6 engines. Torque is not much of a problem with today's transmission. Torque can be manipulated by gear multiplication and with the number of gears we have (8spd), the driver will probably not notice the deficit. Those who are opting to buy a V6 LS aren't looking for highway runs anyways. They got the LS460 for that.
It's all relative. Obviously a V6 isn't going to beat a V8 from the same era, but at the same time, a V8 pales in comparison to a V10. Why stop there? Go with a V12!
It makes everything else feel unrefined and slow.
I don't see a V6 making the LS any less luxurious, in the same way I don't see a V6 in a GS as less 'sporty.' Gas mileage may not be an issue for those who spend $70k on a car, but there are always a group of people who wants to leave a smaller carbon footprint for whatever odd reason. Those who want the V8 can always opt for it at the dealership. In fact, make the V8 standard, but offer the V6 as an eco-tree-hugging-green-save-the-world optional package.
It's all relative. Obviously a V6 isn't going to beat a V8 from the same era, but at the same time, a V8 pales in comparison to a V10. Why stop there? Go with a V12!
It makes everything else feel unrefined and slow. I don't see a V6 making the LS any less luxurious, in the same way I don't see a V6 in a GS as less 'sporty.' Gas mileage may not be an issue for those who spend $70k on a car, but there are always a group of people who wants to leave a smaller carbon footprint for whatever odd reason. Those who want the V8 can always opt for it at the dealership. In fact, make the V8 standard, but offer the V6 as an eco-tree-hugging-green-save-the-world optional package.
cars are getting heavier and heavier these days, so engines just have to go up at the same time. to me allowing discussion of current v6 with v8 from 10 yrs ago is as far as i would go. more than that and it's kind of pointless.
and i don't care about tranny and such, my gs350 simply doesn't make any kind of tq the v8 in my gs400 and sc430. just talk about 70mph pick up and how the rpm spike on my gs350 and how my previous v8 simply breezed through it and that told me right the way already. same with my wife, we had had quite a few v8 (gs400, sc430, ls460l) before the gs350. when she first drove it on the freeway, she said "umm it seems to work harder and not as powerful"
with that said, i am not against if lexus make a hybrid ls450h or something like that, coz' that's like v8 power and like you said better carbon footprint. even the 740il, to some extend i think it's more "ok" since it's turbo charged.
when looking at the topic here, i think it's strictly with v6 NA. any type of hybrid or forced induction and i think it's something else already.
03-20-11, 09:13 PM
#36
Lexus Test Driver
The 740i torque is only high because it's using the twin turbo N54 (and note the N54 still significantly underperforms the 1UR in anything except torque at super low rpms that engines typically don't run at). Lexus doesn't have any FI in its lineup which is why I was comparing to the naturally-aspirated 2GR in my analysis of the low rpm driving characteristics between my IS F and the 350. I'd be more likely to accept a higher torque 6cyl FI (or even just massively high displacement 6cyl) just like I already said I would be more likely to accept a higher torque 6cyl hybrid, but the former two just don't exist in Lexus' product offerings.
Keep in mind FI is just not likely. Lexus could have brought over the limited production supercharged 2GR from the Japan-only Mark X at any time. And that is an FI 6cyl whose performance truly rivals the 1UR.
As discussed by many posts in this thread, it's about the low-end torque, not the max hp at 6000+ rpm. The LS is not designed to be a sport sedan; it's a luxury sedan, so it needs to not have to rev up to move.
03-20-11, 09:19 PM
#37
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Quick question about buying an LS.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/mart...r-resale-value
^They're saying that a Lexus will retain up to 39% of it's resale value after 5 years.
So, lets say that an 07 LS had an msrp of $70k. Does that mean that next year, you can buy one for around $28k? Right now, I'm seeing prices starting at $32k, with CPO's starting at $35k.
If the prices don't drop by next year, will I be able to negotiate a CPO '07 LS for around $28k?
http://www.thecarconnection.com/mart...r-resale-value
^They're saying that a Lexus will retain up to 39% of it's resale value after 5 years.
So, lets say that an 07 LS had an msrp of $70k. Does that mean that next year, you can buy one for around $28k? Right now, I'm seeing prices starting at $32k, with CPO's starting at $35k.
If the prices don't drop by next year, will I be able to negotiate a CPO '07 LS for around $28k?
03-20-11, 09:36 PM
#38
sorry, no disrespect at all, but they screams more like posers to me. kind of remind me of the very old 318ti.
for those who really have enough dough for luxury cars from 70-90k, they can really care less about the 500 bucks "extra" in gas a year. people i know (here in the US at least, i don't care about other regions) who can really afford the s550, they just buy the car like that and drive. they don't go and ask if there can be a v6 version and take 10k off the sticker
for those who really have enough dough for luxury cars from 70-90k, they can really care less about the 500 bucks "extra" in gas a year. people i know (here in the US at least, i don't care about other regions) who can really afford the s550, they just buy the car like that and drive. they don't go and ask if there can be a v6 version and take 10k off the sticker
03-20-11, 11:22 PM
#39
I discussed numbers in the part of my post you snipped out.
The 740i torque is only high because it's using the twin turbo N54 (and note the N54 still significantly underperforms the 1UR in anything except torque at super low rpms that engines typically don't run at). Lexus doesn't have any FI in its lineup which is why I was comparing to the naturally-aspirated 2GR in my analysis of the low rpm driving characteristics between my IS F and the 350. I'd be more likely to accept a higher torque 6cyl FI (or even just massively high displacement 6cyl) just like I already said I would be more likely to accept a higher torque 6cyl hybrid, but the former two just don't exist in Lexus' product offerings.
Keep in mind FI is just not likely. Lexus could have brought over the limited production supercharged 2GR from the Japan-only Mark X at any time. And that is an FI 6cyl whose performance truly rivals the 1UR.
As discussed by many posts in this thread, it's about the low-end torque, not the max hp at 6000+ rpm. The LS is not designed to be a sport sedan; it's a luxury sedan, so it needs to not have to rev up to move.
The 740i torque is only high because it's using the twin turbo N54 (and note the N54 still significantly underperforms the 1UR in anything except torque at super low rpms that engines typically don't run at). Lexus doesn't have any FI in its lineup which is why I was comparing to the naturally-aspirated 2GR in my analysis of the low rpm driving characteristics between my IS F and the 350. I'd be more likely to accept a higher torque 6cyl FI (or even just massively high displacement 6cyl) just like I already said I would be more likely to accept a higher torque 6cyl hybrid, but the former two just don't exist in Lexus' product offerings.
Keep in mind FI is just not likely. Lexus could have brought over the limited production supercharged 2GR from the Japan-only Mark X at any time. And that is an FI 6cyl whose performance truly rivals the 1UR.
As discussed by many posts in this thread, it's about the low-end torque, not the max hp at 6000+ rpm. The LS is not designed to be a sport sedan; it's a luxury sedan, so it needs to not have to rev up to move.
03-20-11, 11:25 PM
#40
100% agree with you. There are a lot of other Mercedes and BMW that scream posers as well. Your in OC though. I remember reading somewhere there are more Mercedes in OC than in all of Germany. I've gone with my mom to Flecther Jones in Newps and its insane how many Mercedes are there. A V6 LS would be bad imo. Why fix it if it isn't broken. Sure it will open the LS to a wider market, but the exclusivity of the LS would be ruined. A LS in the mid 50K range would mean there would be no market for the GS.
heck, even driving an exotic in oc won't necessarily turn many heads, especially on weekends 
03-21-11, 06:09 AM
#41
Pole Position
How efficient do you think a v6 van be when it has to work that much harder to move a 4500lb car? Case in point, how much more efficient is a 4cyl Highlander relative to its v6 counterpart? Or the 4cyl Sienna relative to its v6 counterpart? Regardless of how many gears, the engine only has so much power to give and it still have to move the same amount of mass. Anybody thinking a smaller engine in the LS will yield efficiency is kidding themselves.
03-21-11, 06:58 AM
#42
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V6!!!! Blasphemy 
03-21-11, 07:04 AM
#43
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Without a V8 the LS will have to work too hard and greatly diminish how refined it is. Old people the primary buyers of the LS want low end tq. I say if they add a v6 it needs a turbo. Otherwise no v6 ever in flagship models.
03-21-11, 10:44 AM
#45
Quick question about buying an LS.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/mart...r-resale-value
^They're saying that a Lexus will retain up to 39% of it's resale value after 5 years.
So, lets say that an 07 LS had an msrp of $70k. Does that mean that next year, you can buy one for around $28k? Right now, I'm seeing prices starting at $32k, with CPO's starting at $35k.
If the prices don't drop by next year, will I be able to negotiate a CPO '07 LS for around $28k?
http://www.thecarconnection.com/mart...r-resale-value
^They're saying that a Lexus will retain up to 39% of it's resale value after 5 years.
So, lets say that an 07 LS had an msrp of $70k. Does that mean that next year, you can buy one for around $28k? Right now, I'm seeing prices starting at $32k, with CPO's starting at $35k.
If the prices don't drop by next year, will I be able to negotiate a CPO '07 LS for around $28k?