mmarshall

I'm not sure you (or them) are getting the point here. What you describe is (now) an outdated view of American-nameplate vehicles, and doesn't reflect today's reality. For a number of reasons (globalization being one of them), Ford, GM, and Chrysler are now starting to turn out some respectable vehicles, in comparison to the junk they built for decades. If some of these people in Michigan and down south, that you describe, still want to (artificially) live back in the days when Detroit did junk (and when Americans still bought that junk), then that is on them, not us.

CDNROCKIES

Some interesting perspectives in this thread.

It seems hypocritical to me, to discount American cars in the same way that many buyers refuse to buy Japanese or Korean cars. There are quality products from every manufacturer, but of course, some more than others.

I think it is a mistake for buyers to not look at all options and then truly evaluate and decide what vehicle is best suited for their needs.

That being said, I do have a fundamental issue with GM and Chrysler being bailed out and stealing our money. I bought an F150 a few months ago as I refused to put more money into businesses that should have been allowed to die.

caddyowner

Living in Michigan with family, neighbors, and clients with ties to the Big-3, I usually purchase GM or Ford products. However, none of their products meet the current accessibility needs of my wife like our current Japanese made LS430 and Indiana made Subaru Ouback. If it was just me, I'd have a full-size SUV or pickup plus a Vette.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

we think so similar yet again huh

you mean you didn't buy?

Ty419

I live in Ohio, so I have the privilege of hearing this nonsense constantly. My favorite response is to tell the ignorant UAW worker that I saw them picketing the local plant and telling people to boycott the American brands, so I did and bought a Lexus to help the union in its effort and then I ask them how that strategy is working out. LOL

In reality, I don't even care about the quality of the cars anymore. I used to, when I was not in the financial situation to purchase a car with a warranty. When buying used cars out of warranty, the quality and reliability are much more important and the domestic brands were immediately ruled out. Probably still would be if I were buying a car without a warranty.

Now that the cars are either new or CPO, I don't care so much about reliability or quality ratings so the domestic brands are not immediately ruled out. It is in warranty the whole time and it's not a big deal, with the worst case being that I visit the dealer regularly and get to drive a bunch of loaner cars and check them all out. No big deal.

The reason I don't buy domestic cars at this point in time is that I prefer not to support the UAW and their outlandish labor demands and ridiculous policies. There are too many to list here, but mainly severe overcompensation for unskilled labor and that I think all states should be right-to-work.

On a side note, those of you that don't live in union territory may not be familiar with the absolute arrogance and selfishness of these people. It is the most over-the-top display of complete uneducated ignorance and entitlement that you have ever seen. It's almost comical, but then you realize they really are that stupid, and then it's just sad and confusing. I'd rather explain derivatives to an ADHD preschooler than talk about cars with a domestic autoworker.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

lol

you have no idea how much i hate uaw, complete bunch of bs.

gsmithkaty

Bingo, we have a winner!

mmarshall

The UAW, in fact, has certainly not had a picnic lately. Not only have they endured big pay and benefit cuts, but have also suffered big layoffs as well. That situation has only begun to change very recently as the Ford and GM have started to report profits again (we're still waiting for Chrysler). One must remember that, compared to just a couple of years ago, entire divisions are gone....Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer, and Mercury (all divisions with UAW workers) are now history. That was a lot of jobs gone with them.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

I don't buy American badges but if I did,I'd only buy a Ford.
Screw GM and Chrysler.

IS-SV

One doesn't need any help remembering (most [maybe not all] Car Chat members are not senile) and we feel the taxation effect everyday.

For sure, and all of above should have happened a couple decades ago. It took bankruptcies and government intervention/bailouts to get proper business decisions to actually be made and executed on at GM and Chrysler, pathetic. The billions in losses destroyed so much shareholder wealth, so much waste.

caddyowner

My last two daily drivers were both leases - an 06 Cadillac SRX RWD and an 07 Lincoln MKZ AWD. The MKZ was only in the shop for one warranty repair and, aside from being too Fusion-like, a bit small, and a mediocre AWD system, was a good car. The SRX was probably the worst new car I've ever had with many warranty repairs. I got to like the loaner DTSs more and more. Even if the repairs and loaners were free, frequently taking the car in for service gets old.

I was planning to buy a CPO DTS, but the position of the passenger heated seat control on the door was a problem (I need to have control of that due to my wife's medical situation) and I had real doubts about reliability during the second 100K miles. Also, too many low mileage DTSs had problems: especially suspension shakes and interior trim problems.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

what do you mean by 'American'? i assume you mean the simplistic GM, Chrysler or Ford? But not BMWs made in Spartanburg SC. or Toyotas made in Kentucky, or Hondas made in Ohio, often using a greater U.S. made content than cars you would consider 'domestic', like a Camaro, oh wait, they're made in Canada.

another shallow stereotype. maybe you should look at michigan or almost all of the midwest, which also tends to favor 'american' vehicles, although the irony is a huge number of 'foreign' car plants are now in the midwest, employing tens of thousands of people.

your info say nyc/atl so i assume you think nyc is so much more enlightened not driving 'american garbage'? maybe there's less there because they rot out or fall apart due to pot holes and salt on the roads.

i can agree with that, although i'd never drive a gm or chrysler until all the 50+bn is paid back that was stolen from taxpayers.

amen! the seeds of destruction of the 'big 3' were sown decades ago, with only ford avoiding self-destruction (JUST!) by some financing measures they'd taken just prior to the recession and some very strong management.

lol, well most of those with such archaic views and limited skills are either retired or getting close, but unfortunately younger people will be paying benefits to them for THEIR ENTIRE WORKING LIVES!

we are approaching a generational battle i believe.

gm isn't the gm of old at all, but an entirely new company, created with some DISGUSTING accounting rip offs, and the uaw made a BUNDLE out of that deal, so those uaw workers who lost jobs are still being rewarded handsomely, and undeservedly. and those brands that went away were the market at work - most of the products sucked or were just rehashes of other models in other brands.

CDNROCKIES

+1

The UAW is the cancer of the American auto industry.

mmarshall

I wasn't using the word "remember" in that sense. I'm aware that CL members aren't senile. I only used the term to make a point. Some posters were arguing that the UAW had grabbed way more than their share of pay and benefits. I pointed out that they, like many others, have had to make some sacrifices lately, too....including job losses. And the loss of four American divisions in the last couple of years only made those job losses worse.

Chrysler, though, unlike GM, did not shed any divisions as a result of the government money and Fiat ownership. Eagle and Plymouth, of course, are gone, but that was a number of years ago, not as a result of recent economic conditions.

We've already discussed Saturn numerous times (and disagreed)...so I won't rehash that here again, but discarding Pontiac decades ago, like you suggested, may not have been a wise move either. The Grand-Am, for quite some time, was one of the top-selling American-nameplate cars, though not quite to the popularity level of the Ford Taurus. But I agree that Pontiac also did more than its share of poorly-made vehicles with lousy fit/finish, not to mention the Aztek.

Kingkrs

iTrader: (1)

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/lista...1813&GT1=22009

this is interesting to read about the Lincoln getting the JD Power top spot for reliability in 2011. Lexus came in second with Jaguar, Porsche and Toyota making the top 5.

The bottom are Chrysler, Dodge, Land Rover, Jeep and Mini. That makes 3 Chrysler products all circling the drain. lol