Again double standard. Taxi-cab E-class=Okay. Taxi-cab Ford Crown Vic or anything else= hahaha, pos

I agree about the differences in roads, I am talking about the image.

C'mon Paul you know I am not ignorant to European automotive lifestyle. I may not be from there but I get more Euro mags than American ones. Again I'm not refuting that Lexus did not offer what Europeans want. I just find some double standards in regards to the brand and I find that the European mags pawn off this superior image every month bashing most anything not European and rarely giving something not Euro a fair shake. They (like some articles here) refuse to acknowledge the purpose of a vehicle instead they bash it based on what they THINK it should be.

I've said a trillion times the E/5 will always be the sales leader here and with good reason. More models to choose from, they have image, they rarely put out an overall bad product and people overlook reliability.

I don't know if I completely agree with the fair shake but I agree they have not prioritized Europe like they did America. It also seems most of the rest of the world is happy with the products that do well in America in regards to Lexus sales outside America/Europe.


Maybe its b/c every time I look up there is some article crapping on Lexus for whatever reason(s). Again Mr. Green did not point out Lexus true opportunities in Europe. Instead its a bash a hybrid article and Lexus needs medication. Meanwhile the same can be said for the Euro brands in their quest to chase every single niche while losing core DNA.

If you read these mags/articles hell watch Top Gear they make America seen like the car dump of the world. Its old and tiring. Europe loves small 4 cylinder diesels and some ugly vehicles and you don't see the media or anyone laughing at them constantly.

Oh agreed, the Germans have done a great job with this and Lexus has done a decent job expanding its lineup. Every expert article points at more volume needed for these brands. FYI from my understanding Lexus could possibly account for 50% of Toyota's profits.

I think consumers see the RX, LX, GX together. Lexus has done a good job making their cars share similar cues (IMO) while looking different. Only Bangle had that courage at BMW. Otherwise all German cars look the same just in different sizes. Not knocking it, it works and that is that.

Agreed on your points about branding. I also agree with the diesel offering.

The bottom line is Lexus will never sell 500,000-600,000 cars or so like the Germans do in Europe. That will never happen. I think they would love to see 100,000 a year.

Again, its tiring reading crappy written articles just wanting to bash on Lexus/Toyota for any reason without truly getting to the core of the issue. If he had really taken the time to point out the real problems (like we all here have) I would respect the article.

Instead now countless Europeans get to read another Lexus sucks article. The power of the press.

 

Euro cars should be more reliable in Europe since most are stripped out and lack the options most cars here have. We can all fairly assume a base A1 with A/C will be a lot more reliable than an AWD loaded A8 that is sold here.

I do agree that a lot of people here overact to small problems and expect cars to be perfect.

Big difference. ES/CT buyers likely are not supposed to be enthusiasts. BMW 1 series owners are supposed to be, that is what BMW says, that is what fanbois say that is what magazines say. Yet here we are, 80% think its FWD. Just goes to show how important IMAGE is and that is something I will never argue against. Works for Germans, works for Lexus. Sometimes it hurts the Germans (reliability) sometimes it hurts Lexus (lack of sport and Europe issues).

I think we both can agree if gas prices rise, we will continue to see a shift to smaller Euro engines offered here. That said unlike Europe, Americans do not want stripped out luxury cars. They want the feeling of luxury with the addition of MPG.


So you are saying over 50% of Euro cars are sport package equipped. We both know that is not true. Which means most are standard suspension vehicles.

I'll respond to that initial long post later

 

By all accounts the Ford Crown Victoria is a GOOD QUALITY CAR. It uses simple but proven technology, is reliable, well-built and spacious. Running costs in regards to fuel might be high, though. Personally I'd opt for a classier Mercury Grand Marquis, but that's just me.

Americans simply think that cars that are used as taxis must be "bad" without putting my thought into it. The facts are clear. Taxi duty is one of the toughest jobs any car can perform. And because of this taxi drivers probably have a preference for cars that are up to the task of handling the strain of this job. These cars are virtually running all day and have to perform in daily stop-and-go-traffic conditions - which puts a lot of strain on the components (brakes, engine, transmission, clutch etc.).

It's safe to say that the E class and Crown Victoria are well up to performing this task. And in the case of the E class, this is great advertising for the higher-sped models as this indicates a quality car.

And I am actually saddened by the fact the Crown Victoria is being phased out of taxi and police duty across America. To me that car is an icon, a symbol.

 

There are different kinds of enthusiasts. The enthusiasts that like to drive and have control over their cars etc. would never be seen dead in a Lexus ES or CT200h.

But those people are minority.



Most BMW customers aren't enthusiast. That goes for any brand, for that matter.

What the BMW fanboys say is irrelevant. BMW is a business and businesses are there to make money. Money is made through selling your products. Products are sold through marketing. Marketing attributes special features or capabilities to a product that are supposed to convince your prospective customers.

It's safe to say that most BMW customers want a quality car with a sporty image. Will they ever make use of that sporty drive? Hardly.

Only a small, miniscule amount of people buying cars from any brand are true enthusiasts. In the case of BMW, such people buy the car because they believe it is the car for their needs etc.



We agree.

And I know that features are important in America and you can bet that the European brands will adapt their products accordingly as they have done in the past.




I fail to see how the sport package has any relevance here.

Most people aren't driving enthusiasts, remember? They want something comfortable so when they see the tick box with the optional sport package, you can bet that they'll skip over it.

Many people believe that the standard suspension is already good enough for their requirements. In one of the last Auto Motor und Sport issues there was an article on the W211 E class and Airmatic. Airmatic was an option and it sales in Europe weren't that great. The reason for this was simple. Most people testdrove a standard model and a model equipped with Airmatic and felt that Airmatic didn't offer any advantages over the standard suspension. This logic can also be applied to other features such as manual A/C control vs automatic A/C control etc.

The sport package is (and should always be) an option for those few who really want it. Besides, a normal European luxury car without a sport package is a capable handler. I hear that Mercedes' has been for decades "softening up" the suspensions on their non-AMG cars heading for America, because the average Mercedes customers there doesn't want something sporty. My ex-C200 CDI W204 and W211 E230 drove pretty dynamically I might add. My C class was a sport model, but my E class was a base "Classic" trim edition with a comfort-biased suspension - yet I never had any handling problems, even when I drove the car in a sporty fashion.

And I should also add that most people don't drive around corners at high speed. Once again, most folks out there want something comfortable.

 

Well kind of Mike, Europeans read reliability reports as much as everyone else, however they also have perceived notions like everyone else - that say that German cars are top when it comes to reliability (even if German Magazines dont rate German reliability well).

Just like people in US think Toyota and Honda are best quality cars, no matter the recalls.

 

in any case, there was an survey how taxi drivers do not buy MB anymore, but buy other cars, especially asian (in Germany).

They used to buy old E-class a lot everywhere, because they were known for reliability, when that reliability dropped, taxi drivers turned to other cars too :-)

 

When I was in France last year, I saw more LS600h's in a couple of days than I see here in NYC in several months. I've also seen a lot of Prii, and RX-h.

I barely saw any Japanese cars besides hybrid Lexus and Toyotas. I also saw some FX at the airport, I think they were rentals.

I also saw crapload of Lexii in former USSR. In Kiev, its probably just as popular as it is here in NYC.

And the funny part, all the Lexii I saw were the expensive models. Not a single el-cheapo ES.

 

Well, big reason for big drop in Lexus sales in europe - from 70k to 27k was that Russia had huge economic downturn and it was Lexus's biggest market in Europe.

But lets keep things in perspective, despite subjective measures, Toyota is 7th-9th best selling car company in Western Europe. It only sells really good in some countries that do not have their own car production like Ireland and Scandinavian countries, Greece, etc.

 

Just a photo I took in Kiev - in front of the same building are two LX, one GX/Prado, one LS600h and one S class.

The bottom line, some people like their luxury cars the proper way... others are happy with a badge and a windshield :

 

Nice pic...is that you squatting in the first one

 

btw, a lot of media laughed at CT200h doubling European sales...

so I checked March 2011 sales for Lexus Germany:
1. CT200h: 209
2. RX450h: 79
3. IS: 78
4. LS: 6
5. GS: 6

So far, so good :-).

 

No man, thats some old dude.

 

For comparo, Lexus sold 1437 in March 2011 in Russia

:-)

 

I know I was kidding.

Spwolf thanks for the info

 

Keep in mind, Russia is a huge country, but with a relatively small population and only a handful of cities where people are able to afford Lexus vehicles. Also, Japanese vehicles are often more expensive in Russia vs their European competitors, because in order to deliver them from Japan, you carry them from Eastern to Western Russia, which means something like this.