MM Review: 2012 Fiat 500
04-20-11, 05:20 PM
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
No Abarth, no care.
Odd, when I first heard it was coming I was excited...then as the price rose and the Chrysler/Fiat thing, well its hard to get excited about it.
Its beyond me how cars like this, the Mini, Beetle cost so much. They should be 8-12k entry level cars anyone can almost afford. Instead they turned them into the cute little dogs that people put in their purse.
I read about halfway and stopped. First time I did that
Great review Mike but the car isn't for me.
Odd, when I first heard it was coming I was excited...then as the price rose and the Chrysler/Fiat thing, well its hard to get excited about it.
Its beyond me how cars like this, the Mini, Beetle cost so much. They should be 8-12k entry level cars anyone can almost afford. Instead they turned them into the cute little dogs that people put in their purse.
I read about halfway and stopped. First time I did that
Great review Mike but the car isn't for me.
04-21-11, 12:21 AM
#32
No Abarth, no care.
Odd, when I first heard it was coming I was excited...then as the price rose and the Chrysler/Fiat thing, well its hard to get excited about it.
Its beyond me how cars like this, the Mini, Beetle cost so much. They should be 8-12k entry level cars anyone can almost afford. Instead they turned them into the cute little dogs that people put in their purse.
I read about halfway and stopped. First time I did that Great review Mike but the car isn't for me.
Odd, when I first heard it was coming I was excited...then as the price rose and the Chrysler/Fiat thing, well its hard to get excited about it.
Its beyond me how cars like this, the Mini, Beetle cost so much. They should be 8-12k entry level cars anyone can almost afford. Instead they turned them into the cute little dogs that people put in their purse.
I read about halfway and stopped. First time I did that
Great review Mike but the car isn't for me.Maybe we shouldn't ask why these small cars cost so much but rather, why are we paying so much more for larger cars? Henry Ford once said small cars = small profits and from that you can take; larger cars = large profits.
04-21-11, 01:56 AM
#33
Must be an old list - as of March 2010 over 500,000 FIAT 500s had been sold. The figure is probably over 700,000 now. It's been on sale in the UK for 3 years now and has generally been praised for its build quality with no major problems coming to light - probably because it's built in a highly automated plant in Poland - by Poles, not Italians. Personally, I think FIAT have suffered for years with a poor dealership network, with inconsistent service and an inability to fix small problems first time. Toyota dealers will generally carry out warranty work without a quibble, FIAT can be a bit more difficult. If FIATs were sold by Lexus dealers I think the brand would rocket up the satisfaction rankings.
The 500 has been reworked for the US market with increased body strength; suspension reworked; over 20 specific hardware modifications/additions for improved noise, vibration and harshness; new four-wheel anti-lock disc brake system with new front calipers for better brake performance; larger 10.5 US gal fuel tank; updated heating and cooling system; new front seats with a new armrest and seat cushion for improved comfort; easier entry system designed into the new front seats; new steering wheel controls and revised steering and new BOSE audio system.
The 500 has been reworked for the US market with increased body strength; suspension reworked; over 20 specific hardware modifications/additions for improved noise, vibration and harshness; new four-wheel anti-lock disc brake system with new front calipers for better brake performance; larger 10.5 US gal fuel tank; updated heating and cooling system; new front seats with a new armrest and seat cushion for improved comfort; easier entry system designed into the new front seats; new steering wheel controls and revised steering and new BOSE audio system.
It just means it didnt sell enough in Germany as TUV is technical inspection center in... Germany.
So it could have sold billion in UK, it doesnt really matter :-)
Also, TUV ratings have nothing to do with Italians or Polish factory workers, or dealerships, but quality of components put into the car. It is not an owners survey but average of cars passing their mandatory technical inspection centers. As such even German cars are sometimes rated pretty poor. But nobody beats Italians and French as you can see.
So there is no conspiracy theory here, they are just poorly designed cars. You can still love them and buy them and thats great, but lets not delude ourselves :-).
p.s. Panda that 500 is based on is still best rated Fiat there, although 98th is not really good place to be at.
04-21-11, 01:59 AM
#34
p.s. i am big alfa fan since... forever... I remember when new 159 was released how Fiat said it would bring end to the quality woes as they improved every component.
5-6 later friend was buying a car and I checked 159, it was top 10 car... from the bottom up. Nothing changed since then either. You can talk about quality all you want, talk does not matter, talk is cheap.
5-6 later friend was buying a car and I checked 159, it was top 10 car... from the bottom up. Nothing changed since then either. You can talk about quality all you want, talk does not matter, talk is cheap.
04-21-11, 03:55 AM
#35
Forgive me for stating the bleedin' obvious: The German TUV test is carried out on vehicles over 3 years old, therefore a report in 2010 would be based on data collected when no 500s were old enough to require the test. They can't report on something that didn't require testing.
04-21-11, 04:55 AM
#36
Forgive me for stating the bleedin' obvious: The German TUV test is carried out on vehicles over 3 years old, therefore a report in 2010 would be based on data collected when no 500s were old enough to require the test. They can't report on something that didn't require testing.
Why do you think 500 has these done any differently than car it is based on - Panda? I am sure we will see in the 2011 report...
edit: just see that 2011 report was already out, i will post the numbers soon! :-)
04-21-11, 05:07 AM
#38
Here is the list for 2-3 yr old cars, and links inside for older cars as well.
http://www.zavolantom.eu/2010/12/17/...-3-rocne-auta/
It states that you have to have 10,000 cars inspected as minimum to be on the list, so 500 should be on next year, although not sure why do you think it will be the best rated Fiat model ever :-)
http://www.zavolantom.eu/2010/12/17/...-3-rocne-auta/
It states that you have to have 10,000 cars inspected as minimum to be on the list, so 500 should be on next year, although not sure why do you think it will be the best rated Fiat model ever :-)
04-21-11, 05:43 AM
#39
Here is the list for 2-3 yr old cars, and links inside for older cars as well.
http://www.zavolantom.eu/2010/12/17/...-3-rocne-auta/
It states that you have to have 10,000 cars inspected as minimum to be on the list, so 500 should be on next year, although not sure why do you think it will be the best rated Fiat model ever :-)
http://www.zavolantom.eu/2010/12/17/...-3-rocne-auta/
It states that you have to have 10,000 cars inspected as minimum to be on the list, so 500 should be on next year, although not sure why do you think it will be the best rated Fiat model ever :-)
Warranty Direct, who sell warranties for used cars, track claims made against their policies, the number of days off the road and the cost of the claim. They publish annual reports of the cars they have paid out the most claims on and those that are the most reliable. They rank the FIAT Panda 15th most reliable, just below the Toyota Yaris and well above Toyotas such as the RAV4 and the Avensis, Verso etc. (nothing can touch the Toyota Corolla).
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/
They produce a Top 100 list, ranking the Panda as "Good", if the 500 can keep up that performance then FIAT won't have much to worry about.
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/top-100
04-21-11, 06:37 AM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
i think this car will sell like baked roadkill over here. 
04-21-11, 06:54 AM
#41
Last edited by Big Andy; 04-21-11 at 06:59 AM.
04-21-11, 06:59 AM
#42
I don't think it will be rated as the best FIAT model ever. However, like the UK MOT test, the German TUV test is merely a check to see if a vehicle is in a roadworthy condition on that day. So it checks lights, tyre tread depths, brakes etc, as well as structural soundness. It is not a test of reliability. Yes, it can give you a breakdown of figures of which models failed the most, but what did they fail on - failed brake light? Worn tyre? How much was down to vehicle build quality and how much was down to owner negligence? No one can tell you.
Warranty Direct, who sell warranties for used cars, track claims made against their policies, the number of days off the road and the cost of the claim. They publish annual reports of the cars they have paid out the most claims on and those that are the most reliable. They rank the FIAT Panda 15th most reliable, just below the Toyota Yaris and well above Toyotas such as the RAV4 and the Avensis, Verso etc. (nothing can touch the Toyota Corolla).
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/
They produce a Top 100 list, ranking the Panda as "Good", if the 500 can keep up that performance then FIAT won't have much to worry about.
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/top-100
Warranty Direct, who sell warranties for used cars, track claims made against their policies, the number of days off the road and the cost of the claim. They publish annual reports of the cars they have paid out the most claims on and those that are the most reliable. They rank the FIAT Panda 15th most reliable, just below the Toyota Yaris and well above Toyotas such as the RAV4 and the Avensis, Verso etc. (nothing can touch the Toyota Corolla).
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/
They produce a Top 100 list, ranking the Panda as "Good", if the 500 can keep up that performance then FIAT won't have much to worry about.
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/top-100
Obviously cheap cars cost less to fix because they use cheaper components.
Everyone is on level ground with TUV - there is no reason for Fiat owners to be less negligent of their 2 year cars than Toyota owners.
They also check many things, including emissions, suspension, brakes, etc.
And FIAT is consistently last from year 2 to year 11. What exactly do you expect from 2 year old car? Worn tires? Worn brakes?
I guess your theory here is that average FIAT owner is stupid and doesnt take care of their vehicles?
Then when I point out that FIAT scores among the lowest in European JD Powers, you will say that it is because dealers are bad.
Same goes for Autobild Survey?
http://www.autobild.de/artikel/auto-...0-1215088.html
Fiat shares 18th place out of 19 manufacturers :-).
04-21-11, 07:32 AM
#43
So answer me this - Why is a roadworthiness test carried out on a single day every 2 years a better indicator of reliabilty than figures produced by a company that actually has to pay out when a vehicle brakes down on any day? What reason would a warranty company have to favour one make over another?
I do realise that in your eyes Toyota is the greatest car company in the world ever, can do no wrong, makes the finest cars, designed by automotive Gods,has the best strategy, last forever, perform perfectly and only fairy dust comes out of the tailpipes so there really is no point in pointing out that other brands have good points too - Toyota will always rule.
BTW. The only car I've ever had to be bought back by the manufacturer as a lemon was a Toyota Rav4. I've had two Lexus - both with alloy wheels so cheaply made they have to be replaced annually due to corrosion, one has had a full engine strip down to repair a VVti problem, the other went back numerous times for squeeks and rattles. I still love my Lexus but my eyes are wide open to the corners Toyota cut and the fact that in some areas FIAT build quality is better.
I do realise that in your eyes Toyota is the greatest car company in the world ever, can do no wrong, makes the finest cars, designed by automotive Gods,has the best strategy, last forever, perform perfectly and only fairy dust comes out of the tailpipes so there really is no point in pointing out that other brands have good points too - Toyota will always rule.
BTW. The only car I've ever had to be bought back by the manufacturer as a lemon was a Toyota Rav4. I've had two Lexus - both with alloy wheels so cheaply made they have to be replaced annually due to corrosion, one has had a full engine strip down to repair a VVti problem, the other went back numerous times for squeeks and rattles. I still love my Lexus but my eyes are wide open to the corners Toyota cut and the fact that in some areas FIAT build quality is better.
Last edited by Big Andy; 04-21-11 at 07:42 AM.
04-21-11, 08:19 AM
#44
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Thanks.
I'd say the current American-market 500s compete with the base-model Minis...though at a somewhat lower price. The Mini, of course, has the extended, utilitarian Clubman and high-performance S and John Works models, which are more specialized than the basic 500s, but, of course, all-electric and high-performance Abarth 500 models are coming by the end of the year.
If the 500 is really a Mini Cooper competitor, then I would probably get the Fiat.
04-21-11, 08:33 AM
#45
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Just be paitient. The Abarth is coming, but we'll have to wait some more months for it. Same with the all-electric version.
In fact, in the meantime, if you get a chance to drive an Abarth or an all-electric 500 down there in Atlanta, give us an update.
Part of it, of course, is not only all of the features that customers want on today's cars, but the Federally-mandated equipment as well. The little Topolino 500 of decades ago, for instance, didn't have power steering/brakes/windows/mirrors, an AM/FM stereo, satellite radio, a tach, air bags, a 6-speed automatic with manual-shift feature, intermittent wipers, fold-down arm-rests, 4-disc ABS, computerized engine/transmission controls, or a traction/stability system.
Granted, my reviews can sometimes get a little long-winded. 
But that's because I try and give not only a complete introduction, but a complete description of the car as well.
Thanks.
Actually, not for me either......I like something larger, heavier, and more refined.
In fact, in the meantime, if you get a chance to drive an Abarth or an all-electric 500 down there in Atlanta, give us an update.
Its beyond me how cars like this, the Mini, Beetle cost so much. They should be 8-12k entry level cars anyone can almost afford. Instead they turned them into the cute little dogs that people put in their purse.
I read about halfway and stopped.
But that's because I try and give not only a complete introduction, but a complete description of the car as well.
Great review Mike
but the car isn't for me.
Last edited by mmarshall; 04-21-11 at 08:38 AM.