spwolf

You do realize how close September is? That means they have to announce the car in next month. Full factory production will have to start in June to have cars by September.

Did they get all the parts they need for factory retooling already? Were some parts damaged?

Not showing it in NY means that it might not ship by September.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

I'm just posting what I was told at the show.
Could be minor changes or could be major changes.
I was told Sept is the target date for the Camry but not definite.
Release or just the a showing of the Camry.I don't know.
If not available for sale in Sept/Oct,it will probably be a '13 and sold in Feb '12 like the '10 RX in Feb '09..


Maybe dealers have too many '11's on hand and Toyota wants to sell many before the '12 is unveiled.
My dealer has 200 '11 Camry in inventory.Another dealer near me has 160.I have than a a dozen dealers in a 50 miles radius.That's a lot of 11's sitting in stock.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

The dealers are the ones having face to face interraction with buyers, hearing their opinions, feedback, thoughts and impressions about the products throughout the life cycle. It's a collaborative effort, and yes Toyota does most of the work, but the portion that dealers are responsible for is absolutely critical. By your same logic, when people started coming into Toyota dealers saying that their acceleration pedals were sticking, or coming into Lexus dealers saying that their cars were stalling out from faulty valve springs, they should have been laughed out the door because the dealers don't know anything about design, engineering or budgets?

I think you are sorely underestimating the role of dealerships in the big picture. Toyota and Lexus both have annual consultations with the dealer body to talk about upcoming products, problems, changes, priorities and in all of these instances, there is two way communication between both sides. Whether or not the 3RX was to have a 3rd row was essentially decided upon by the dealers. The people who touch customers on a daily basis by selling and servicing the products are one of the most precious resources.

The 6th gen Camry debuted in 2007. The 2012 redesign would be a 5 year life cycle - on the shorter side of what is standard for cars in this class. Lets also not forget that unlike Chevy, Ford or Hyundai, who can barely keep a midsize car competitive for two generations, Toyota has to think about things like resale value for it's existing customers. Changing the body style every four years is expensive and hurts the resale of older models.

spwolf

you were told wrong and person who told you what they told you does not understand much.

LexusMan77

The 6th generation Camry actually debuted March 2006 for the model year 2007. Thus, it would be 6 years for the 2012 redesign.

IS-SV

No, a m.y. 2012 redesign is only a 5 year product life cycle.

I see it as being a model year 2013 redesign, if the current gen (beginning with model year 2007) gets a full 6 year life cycle.

Fizzboy7

I agree, a dealer's input has some bearing and has been considered before. (This is likely more true with features, options, and pricing, rather than with styling.) However, it was stated in an earlier post that the car was more or less finalized, then shown to dealers, and then rejected. My point is I don't think Toyota would go all the way to the end to show the dealers, then accept the possibility the dealer would say "no," and have to start over again. The interaction would be way earlier in the car's development.

And to those thinking the longer model life cycles are not to save money, I still don't agree. The less you retool, the less money you lay out. Honda flat out admitted this with the last Civic. Perhaps some of these designs are so successful, they continue selling well after four years. But that still doesn't erase the money savings for not having a new model.

LexFather

Well the fact is Toyota cannot screw up the Camry. Toyota still is in the midst of recalls/bad press and increased and hungry competition. I'd rather them wait and get it right then produce something dealers feel people will not want.

Dealers are vital to explaining what people want. Lexus dealers told Lexus the HS wasn't exactly what people here wanted and what works in Japan might not work here. Clearly they were right. I already gave the Acura example.

Fizzboy7

This brings up a sneaky thing car makers have been doing lately, but no one talks about. The new trend is to bring out a new model 9-11 months before the actual year begins, which is technically "legal." Then, they get a free eleven months of calling their car a future car since the future is so far away (11 months). Ford is king at this, Toyota is second, and Audi has caught on. I think it's rediculous to call a car a 2012 when it's January 2011, but this is what we have now. Every maker now wants the bragging rights to having the farthest year out. It's also a way to "cheat" the model year life cycle. While Toyota will claim they only had this Camry out for x amount of years, the reality is people and society have seen it for an extra 3/4's of a year and could be that much more tired of it's design. Fortunately, I don't believe the Camry is suffering from looking old, but it's a risk a car company takes with less successful designs.

LexFather

Well lets not forget this. The last gen came actually came out 4.5 years after the previous generation which was pretty unheard of. Toyota bragged on how they came up with a process to shorten the time to design and build a new car. Well it seems that process maybe on hold since this car is going on 5/6 years instead of the short 4.5 they used previously. Maybe its b/c of quality or cost, not sure.

Fizzy also brings up a good point of how companies are using model years very early.

TRDFantasy

Yes, one benefit of longer life cycles is some cost savings. However, as I already mentioned, Toyota is NOT pursuing longer life cycles for that reason. Toyota has explicitly mentioned with the longer life cycles, they will spend MORE money on prototypes, more money on testing, and more money on ensuring quality. Toyota told stockholders to expect a short term profit drop due to this. Clearly, Toyota is going to longer life cycles not to save on costs, even if that is one of the benefits.

TRDFantasy

Correct. With the gen 6 Camry (and a few other Toyota products released in 2005-2007), Toyota relied too much on computer-aided design and testing, and not enough on real-world testing. In various articles and interviews, it has been mentioned that Toyota has learned from those mistakes and is going back to its "old school" methods of development. That means longer life cycles, much more real world testing, and more prototypes to ensure quality and reliability. This will cost more and amount to less profit in the short term, but it clearly shows quality is once again the top priority at Toyota.

-J-P-L-

I look forward to seeing who comes out on top in May sales...Camry, Accord, Altima, or Fusion.

Clearly, Altima took last month due to deep incentives. This month may be affected by Japans earthquake and may result in an inaccurate gauge of where these competitors stand.

TRDFantasy

Until the end of the year, the sales of Japanese competitors won't be an accurate gauge, as all Japanese competitors will run at crippled production levels for several months.

spwolf

I have read an article on Reuters last night on how as of last week, Toyota has told one of its largest dealer groups that there is no delay in 2012 Camry.

So it is coming soon!