The '12 Camry a no show at the NY Car Show
#46
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I was at the NY auto show yesterday and asked a Toyota Rep about the '12 Camry and why it wasn't there.
He said the Toyota brass decided to change things on the car and that's what's causing the delay till possibly Sept.
I asked about the dealers seeing the car and not liking it and he said that he heard that but didn't know if it was true.
That's all he had to say.
He said the Toyota brass decided to change things on the car and that's what's causing the delay till possibly Sept.
I asked about the dealers seeing the car and not liking it and he said that he heard that but didn't know if it was true.
That's all he had to say.
Did they get all the parts they need for factory retooling already? Were some parts damaged?
Not showing it in NY means that it might not ship by September.
#47
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You do realize how close September is? That means they have to announce the car in next month. Full factory production will have to start in June to have cars by September.
Did they get all the parts they need for factory retooling already? Were some parts damaged?
Not showing it in NY means that it might not ship by September.
Did they get all the parts they need for factory retooling already? Were some parts damaged?
Not showing it in NY means that it might not ship by September.
Could be minor changes or could be major changes.
I was told Sept is the target date for the Camry but not definite.
Release or just the a showing of the Camry.I don't know.
If not available for sale in Sept/Oct,it will probably be a '13 and sold in Feb '12 like the '10 RX in Feb '09..
Maybe dealers have too many '11's on hand and Toyota wants to sell many before the '12 is unveiled.
My dealer has 200 '11 Camry in inventory.Another dealer near me has 160.I have than a a dozen dealers in a 50 miles radius.That's a lot of 11's sitting in stock.
Last edited by Joeb427; 04-26-11 at 07:09 AM.
#48
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What type of professional business method relies on DEALERS to determine a final style of a car? That is one of the worst ideas I've heard. A dealer has not majored in auto design, are not engineers, and are not the bean counters for the company. A giant company such as Toyota, who has access to every marketing and design tool in the industry, does not spend m(b?)illions on a new design only to show the car to dealers at the last minute and say, "here... what do you think?" They can't possibly operate that half-hazardly.
I think you are sorely underestimating the role of dealerships in the big picture. Toyota and Lexus both have annual consultations with the dealer body to talk about upcoming products, problems, changes, priorities and in all of these instances, there is two way communication between both sides. Whether or not the 3RX was to have a 3rd row was essentially decided upon by the dealers. The people who touch customers on a daily basis by selling and servicing the products are one of the most precious resources.
What I do think is happening is Toyota is falling into a new pattern of stalling redesigns to save costs . From doing it every four years, then to five, and now to six, this is the new life cycle- even if it hurts sales. With the exception of gung-ho Hyundai, other makers have been doing it too.
#49
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I'm just posting what I was told at the show.
Could be minor changes or could be major changes.
I was told Sept is the target date for the Camry but not definite.
Release or just the a showing of the Camry.I don't know.
If not available for sale in Sept/Oct,it will probably be a '13 and sold in Feb '12 like the '10 RX in Feb '09..
Maybe dealers have too many '11's on hand and Toyota wants to sell many before the '12 is unveiled.
My dealer has 200 '11 Camry in inventory.Another dealer near me has 160.I have than a a dozen dealers in a 50 miles radius.That's a lot of 11's sitting in stock.
Could be minor changes or could be major changes.
I was told Sept is the target date for the Camry but not definite.
Release or just the a showing of the Camry.I don't know.
If not available for sale in Sept/Oct,it will probably be a '13 and sold in Feb '12 like the '10 RX in Feb '09..
Maybe dealers have too many '11's on hand and Toyota wants to sell many before the '12 is unveiled.
My dealer has 200 '11 Camry in inventory.Another dealer near me has 160.I have than a a dozen dealers in a 50 miles radius.That's a lot of 11's sitting in stock.
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The dealers are the ones having face to face interraction with buyers, hearing their opinions, feedback, thoughts and impressions about the products throughout the life cycle. It's a collaborative effort, and yes Toyota does most of the work, but the portion that dealers are responsible for is absolutely critical. By your same logic, when people started coming into Toyota dealers saying that their acceleration pedals were sticking, or coming into Lexus dealers saying that their cars were stalling out from faulty valve springs, they should have been laughed out the door because the dealers don't know anything about design, engineering or budgets?
I think you are sorely underestimating the role of dealerships in the big picture. Toyota and Lexus both have annual consultations with the dealer body to talk about upcoming products, problems, changes, priorities and in all of these instances, there is two way communication between both sides. Whether or not the 3RX was to have a 3rd row was essentially decided upon by the dealers. The people who touch customers on a daily basis by selling and servicing the products are one of the most precious resources.
The 6th gen Camry debuted in 2007. The 2012 redesign would be a 5 year life cycle - on the shorter side of what is standard for cars in this class. Lets also not forget that unlike Chevy, Ford or Hyundai, who can barely keep a midsize car competitive for two generations, Toyota has to think about things like resale value for it's existing customers. Changing the body style every four years is expensive and hurts the resale of older models.
I think you are sorely underestimating the role of dealerships in the big picture. Toyota and Lexus both have annual consultations with the dealer body to talk about upcoming products, problems, changes, priorities and in all of these instances, there is two way communication between both sides. Whether or not the 3RX was to have a 3rd row was essentially decided upon by the dealers. The people who touch customers on a daily basis by selling and servicing the products are one of the most precious resources.
The 6th gen Camry debuted in 2007. The 2012 redesign would be a 5 year life cycle - on the shorter side of what is standard for cars in this class. Lets also not forget that unlike Chevy, Ford or Hyundai, who can barely keep a midsize car competitive for two generations, Toyota has to think about things like resale value for it's existing customers. Changing the body style every four years is expensive and hurts the resale of older models.
#51
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I see it as being a model year 2013 redesign, if the current gen (beginning with model year 2007) gets a full 6 year life cycle.
#52
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The dealers are the ones having face to face interraction with buyers, hearing their opinions, feedback, thoughts and impressions about the products throughout the life cycle. It's a collaborative effort, and yes Toyota does most of the work, but the portion that dealers are responsible for is absolutely critical. By your same logic, when people started coming into Toyota dealers saying that their acceleration pedals were sticking, or coming into Lexus dealers saying that their cars were stalling out from faulty valve springs, they should have been laughed out the door because the dealers don't know anything about design, engineering or budgets?
I think you are sorely underestimating the role of dealerships in the big picture. Toyota and Lexus both have annual consultations with the dealer body to talk about upcoming products, problems, changes, priorities and in all of these instances, there is two way communication between both sides. Whether or not the 3RX was to have a 3rd row was essentially decided upon by the dealers. The people who touch customers on a daily basis by selling and servicing the products are one of the most precious resources.
The 6th gen Camry debuted in 2007. The 2012 redesign would be a 5 year life cycle - on the shorter side of what is standard for cars in this class. Lets also not forget that unlike Chevy, Ford or Hyundai, who can barely keep a midsize car competitive for two generations, Toyota has to think about things like resale value for it's existing customers. Changing the body style every four years is expensive and hurts the resale of older models.
I think you are sorely underestimating the role of dealerships in the big picture. Toyota and Lexus both have annual consultations with the dealer body to talk about upcoming products, problems, changes, priorities and in all of these instances, there is two way communication between both sides. Whether or not the 3RX was to have a 3rd row was essentially decided upon by the dealers. The people who touch customers on a daily basis by selling and servicing the products are one of the most precious resources.
The 6th gen Camry debuted in 2007. The 2012 redesign would be a 5 year life cycle - on the shorter side of what is standard for cars in this class. Lets also not forget that unlike Chevy, Ford or Hyundai, who can barely keep a midsize car competitive for two generations, Toyota has to think about things like resale value for it's existing customers. Changing the body style every four years is expensive and hurts the resale of older models.
And to those thinking the longer model life cycles are not to save money, I still don't agree. The less you retool, the less money you lay out. Honda flat out admitted this with the last Civic. Perhaps some of these designs are so successful, they continue selling well after four years. But that still doesn't erase the money savings for not having a new model.
#53
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Well the fact is Toyota cannot screw up the Camry. Toyota still is in the midst of recalls/bad press and increased and hungry competition. I'd rather them wait and get it right then produce something dealers feel people will not want.
Dealers are vital to explaining what people want. Lexus dealers told Lexus the HS wasn't exactly what people here wanted and what works in Japan might not work here. Clearly they were right. I already gave the Acura example.
Dealers are vital to explaining what people want. Lexus dealers told Lexus the HS wasn't exactly what people here wanted and what works in Japan might not work here. Clearly they were right. I already gave the Acura example.
#54
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This brings up a sneaky thing car makers have been doing lately, but no one talks about. The new trend is to bring out a new model 9-11 months before the actual year begins, which is technically "legal." Then, they get a free eleven months of calling their car a future car since the future is so far away (11 months). Ford is king at this, Toyota is second, and Audi has caught on. I think it's rediculous to call a car a 2012 when it's January 2011, but this is what we have now. Every maker now wants the bragging rights to having the farthest year out. It's also a way to "cheat" the model year life cycle. While Toyota will claim they only had this Camry out for x amount of years, the reality is people and society have seen it for an extra 3/4's of a year and could be that much more tired of it's design. Fortunately, I don't believe the Camry is suffering from looking old, but it's a risk a car company takes with less successful designs.
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Well lets not forget this. The last gen came actually came out 4.5 years after the previous generation which was pretty unheard of. Toyota bragged on how they came up with a process to shorten the time to design and build a new car. Well it seems that process maybe on hold since this car is going on 5/6 years instead of the short 4.5 they used previously. Maybe its b/c of quality or cost, not sure.
Fizzy also brings up a good point of how companies are using model years very early.
Fizzy also brings up a good point of how companies are using model years very early.
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And to those thinking the longer model life cycles are not to save money, I still don't agree. The less you retool, the less money you lay out. Honda flat out admitted this with the last Civic. Perhaps some of these designs are so successful, they continue selling well after four years. But that still doesn't erase the money savings for not having a new model.
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Well lets not forget this. The last gen came actually came out 4.5 years after the previous generation which was pretty unheard of. Toyota bragged on how they came up with a process to shorten the time to design and build a new car. Well it seems that process maybe on hold since this car is going on 5/6 years instead of the short 4.5 they used previously. Maybe its b/c of quality or cost, not sure.
Fizzy also brings up a good point of how companies are using model years very early.
Fizzy also brings up a good point of how companies are using model years very early.
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I look forward to seeing who comes out on top in May sales...Camry, Accord, Altima, or Fusion.
Clearly, Altima took last month due to deep incentives. This month may be affected by Japans earthquake and may result in an inaccurate gauge of where these competitors stand.
Clearly, Altima took last month due to deep incentives. This month may be affected by Japans earthquake and may result in an inaccurate gauge of where these competitors stand.
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Until the end of the year, the sales of Japanese competitors won't be an accurate gauge, as all Japanese competitors will run at crippled production levels for several months.