Lexus dealers feedback to TMC
05-01-11, 12:17 PM
#61
^^ In all fairness, bmw and mercedes are making great strikes in exterior design, new engine, interior design and materials, and overall quality.
as a side note, the CLS550 is now on mbusa.com and it is 3K cheaper than the outgoing model with more standard features...Lexus needs to pay attention. It has the new 4.6 liter DI, bi turbo engine whipping out 403 hp with epa est 16/24 which isnt stellar, but is far better than the 14/21 of the outgoing 5.5 liter 380 hp
as a side note, the CLS550 is now on mbusa.com and it is 3K cheaper than the outgoing model with more standard features...Lexus needs to pay attention. It has the new 4.6 liter DI, bi turbo engine whipping out 403 hp with epa est 16/24 which isnt stellar, but is far better than the 14/21 of the outgoing 5.5 liter 380 hp
05-01-11, 12:23 PM
#62
Sorry. That was unfair. I think I was defending Lexus back then because I believed the recalls were unnecessary. I still do believe that. However the product is clearly lagging the market.
While some defend Lexus' innovation record I continue to believe they are completely lagging. I don't see how anyone can say a company is an innovation leader when they were the last company to switch from cassette deck to MP3 player, the last luxury player to introduce HD navigation, a company that still hasn't figured out an easy way to enter addresses into the nav.
And the idea that there is a massive R&D budget which will leapfrog everyone in 2013 with new products is also ridiculous. A good R&D function would update every vehicle every couple of years to keep them current in tech. Not launch an p to date vehicle, and then let it fall behind the times for 6 of the 8 years of the production cycle.
But Lexus will be fine. Brand Loyalty is a strong thing, and there will always be a segment that buys cars from the worlds number four luxury car manufacturer. I could not imagine TRDFantasy in anything else.
While some defend Lexus' innovation record I continue to believe they are completely lagging. I don't see how anyone can say a company is an innovation leader when they were the last company to switch from cassette deck to MP3 player, the last luxury player to introduce HD navigation, a company that still hasn't figured out an easy way to enter addresses into the nav.
And the idea that there is a massive R&D budget which will leapfrog everyone in 2013 with new products is also ridiculous. A good R&D function would update every vehicle every couple of years to keep them current in tech. Not launch an p to date vehicle, and then let it fall behind the times for 6 of the 8 years of the production cycle.
But Lexus will be fine. Brand Loyalty is a strong thing, and there will always be a segment that buys cars from the worlds number four luxury car manufacturer. I could not imagine TRDFantasy in anything else.
Generally though, Lexus does have a problem where most of their lineup is same refresh cycle, so you have IS, ES, GS, LS that are released within a year of each other... So when these are >3 years old, it is normal that sales will fall, especially in segments where Lexus was never strong - like GS.
05-01-11, 12:58 PM
#64
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Who gives a crap about losing a cassette player? I laughed at the article that picked on Lexus for offering it still and they were actually WRONG
. People do anything to crap on Lexus.
Lexus has led the world with hybrid technology in luxury vehicles. There is more technology in the wires of a hybrid than in most entire cars. I know people hate hybrids but THEY ARE the most technological cars around, Lexus has FIVE of them and instead of the media praising them as a LEADER there is hardly a mention.
Some brands still don't have a hybrid. Some brands have one maybe. Again Lexus came with the first 8 speed tranny. What did Lexus get? A bunch of asshats complaining its too much. Mind you its lighter with less parts. What happens? The Germans now come with 7/8 and will have a 9 speed. What is said "oh they are leaders"
In the other GS sticky, I found out the LandCruiser and the LX 450 were the FIRST VEHICLES with Nightvision. I had no idea and I doubt anyone else did. That is leading. Instead people (mostly non-Lexus owners) say its just a LandCruiser with a L badge.
I am not saying Lexus is THE leader in technology. They are AMONG the leaders but are not recognized for it. The media rather bash them for whatever reason.
Oddly, consumers voted Lexus the most technlogical brand.
Toyota CURRENTLY HAS the largest R&D budget of ANY automaker.
http://wardsauto.com/ar/automotive_rd_spending_101109/
Lexus/Toyota just spent hundreds of millions on the LFA. They could have used aluminum but switched to CARBON FIBER and built it IN HOUSE. Everyone else OUTSOURCES THEIR CARBON FIBER. Hell BMW, Audi, Ifiniti, Acura, Lincon, Cadilac, etc etc DO NOT HAVE A CARBON FIBER CAR. Only the Mercedes SLR (not the SLS) used it. That is TECHNOLOGY. That fact is either largely ignored or falls on deaf ears. Do people realize how ****ing hard it is to weave your own ****ing carbon fiber???????
The LFA is a technological tour-de-force in an exotic. The gauges are like nothing else in the world. The engineering is on par with the best from Ferrari, etc. There are those that actually comprehend what was accomplished with the LFA and there are those that honestly have no idea about cars and dismiss the LFA and its technology. It would be better if they said "I don't understand" instead of "it costs too much".
You know the GS 350/IS 350 with the 3.5 V-6 with DI not only is fastest in class with the 3/5 but also gets the best MPG. That is RARELY mentioned in the media.
Lexus is a thinking mans car. If one wants fluff and media whoring, they can buy another brand.
. People do anything to crap on Lexus.Lexus has led the world with hybrid technology in luxury vehicles. There is more technology in the wires of a hybrid than in most entire cars. I know people hate hybrids but THEY ARE the most technological cars around, Lexus has FIVE of them and instead of the media praising them as a LEADER there is hardly a mention.
Some brands still don't have a hybrid. Some brands have one maybe. Again Lexus came with the first 8 speed tranny. What did Lexus get? A bunch of asshats complaining its too much. Mind you its lighter with less parts. What happens? The Germans now come with 7/8 and will have a 9 speed. What is said "oh they are leaders"
In the other GS sticky, I found out the LandCruiser and the LX 450 were the FIRST VEHICLES with Nightvision. I had no idea and I doubt anyone else did. That is leading. Instead people (mostly non-Lexus owners) say its just a LandCruiser with a L badge.
The optional Night View feature, an infrared camera safety system, was offered as an option in 2002. This was the world's first active automotive night vision system and projected information on the windshield using a head-up display; the driver could vary brightness using a dimmer
Oddly, consumers voted Lexus the most technlogical brand.
Toyota CURRENTLY HAS the largest R&D budget of ANY automaker.
http://wardsauto.com/ar/automotive_rd_spending_101109/
Among auto makers on the list, Toyota spent $7.8 billion on R&D last year, followed by GM with a $6 billion outlay. VW was next with $5.4 billion. Honda accounted for $5.0 billion and Ford spent $4.9 billion.
The LFA is a technological tour-de-force in an exotic. The gauges are like nothing else in the world. The engineering is on par with the best from Ferrari, etc. There are those that actually comprehend what was accomplished with the LFA and there are those that honestly have no idea about cars and dismiss the LFA and its technology. It would be better if they said "I don't understand" instead of "it costs too much".
You know the GS 350/IS 350 with the 3.5 V-6 with DI not only is fastest in class with the 3/5 but also gets the best MPG. That is RARELY mentioned in the media.
Lexus is a thinking mans car. If one wants fluff and media whoring, they can buy another brand.
Last edited by LexFather; 05-01-11 at 01:02 PM.
05-01-11, 01:26 PM
#65
your fact about the IS350 and GS350 being fastest in class has been proven wrong by independent testing.
As for arguing Toyota has the largest R&D budget - yes but they also have a lot of skus to spread it across.
As a luxury customer I don't see it. If Lexus has the largest dedicated R&D in the luxury market I would be surprised.
But even if they do - so what? Microsoft has a bigger R&D budget than Apple.
As for arguing Toyota has the largest R&D budget - yes but they also have a lot of skus to spread it across.
As a luxury customer I don't see it. If Lexus has the largest dedicated R&D in the luxury market I would be surprised.
But even if they do - so what? Microsoft has a bigger R&D budget than Apple.
05-01-11, 02:45 PM
#66
Lexus Fanatic
Generally though, Lexus does have a problem where most of their lineup is same refresh cycle, so you have IS, ES, GS, LS that are released within a year of each other... So when these are >3 years old, it is normal that sales will fall, especially in segments where Lexus was never strong - like GS.
i don't think it matters if different models are refreshed at the same time.
people generally don't cross shop them. If i'm shopping for the GS, I'm not gonna look at the IS or ES or LS, so i don't care when the other models are released.
regardless of when it's released, a 3 year old car is a 3 year old car.
If there are other better alternative cars available in the class, I will look into them.
lexus can only blame themselves for the eventual GS sales failure. With $599 lease rates and no other incentives, no one had any reason to drive it.
a 3 year old bmw sells as well as its first year.
05-01-11, 03:09 PM
#67
i don't think it matters if different models are refreshed at the same time.
people generally don't cross shop them. If i'm shopping for the GS, I'm not gonna look at the IS or ES or LS, so i don't care when the other models are released.
regardless of when it's released, a 3 year old car is a 3 year old car.
If there are other better alternative cars available in the class, I will look into them.
lexus can only blame themselves for the eventual GS sales failure. With $599 lease rates and no other incentives, no one had any reason to drive it.
a 3 year old bmw sells as well as its first year.
people generally don't cross shop them. If i'm shopping for the GS, I'm not gonna look at the IS or ES or LS, so i don't care when the other models are released.
regardless of when it's released, a 3 year old car is a 3 year old car.
If there are other better alternative cars available in the class, I will look into them.
lexus can only blame themselves for the eventual GS sales failure. With $599 lease rates and no other incentives, no one had any reason to drive it.
a 3 year old bmw sells as well as its first year.
Problem is that Lexus wants to be making money, so they are not going to offer as big incentives, because they always have Toyota to fall back to. So tough luck with those leases.
05-01-11, 03:17 PM
#69
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yes, Ill give you that mercedes has been behind on their v6s but in one short year, we are getting a DI 3.5 v6 for bread and butter models, and the new 4.6 in all the other premium models.
05-01-11, 03:42 PM
#70
Plus even their new powertrains cant match Lexus for mpg. IS350 is faster and gets better mpg than 2012 C350.
GR series V6 is amazing engine still to date, and imho better overall than anything else on the market even today. I cant wait to see improvements in next-gen GS. Great for MB for improving but still not reaching its levels, and great for BMW for "experimenting" with turbos, GR is still horse to beat overall. I wont even mention VAG V6's... lol.
05-01-11, 03:53 PM
#72
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well it will be interesting to see what exactly the new GS will debut with. Im going to guess the current 3.5 and 4.6 with maybe a 5hp increase. as a side note, MB has also made some efficient diesel engines in the last few years.
05-01-11, 04:07 PM
#73
There are 20 manufacturers out there and they all try to one-up each other, but overall Lexus is doing pretty good job. Their NAVs are certainly not up to Ford Sync coolness, but neither are VAGs or MB's.
What dealers said and what many of you echo is that Lexus should beat everyone on every single thing at any single point in time. Thats just not possible.
For instance, Entune seems nice and I like the idea much better than Sync, because it is not fully integrated in the car, and it shouldnt be (unless you want system restart causing AC unit to go crazy as reported in SYNC). But technology moves fast. If it gets introduced on GS, it doesnt mean that BMW wont introduce something even cooler in 2013 or MB in 2015.
You cant beat everyone at everything, at any point in time... just not possible.
It would be great to get MB CLS style and Lexus craftmanship in Jag interior with BMW engine with Lexus durability and SYNC based navigation system.
But it does not work that way... and afterall, thats why people do buy Lexus, right?
Because they want to own their vehicles, not lease them, not worry about fuel pumps, 7 speed transmissions, or A/C blowing cold in 20F morning because your navigation just restarted.
Well that has its pluses and minuses.
05-01-11, 04:22 PM
#74
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your fact about the IS350 and GS350 being fastest in class has been proven wrong by independent testing.
As for arguing Toyota has the largest R&D budget - yes but they also have a lot of skus to spread it across.
As a luxury customer I don't see it. If Lexus has the largest dedicated R&D in the luxury market I would be surprised.
But even if they do - so what? Microsoft has a bigger R&D budget than Apple.
As for arguing Toyota has the largest R&D budget - yes but they also have a lot of skus to spread it across.
As a luxury customer I don't see it. If Lexus has the largest dedicated R&D in the luxury market I would be surprised.
But even if they do - so what? Microsoft has a bigger R&D budget than Apple.
You don't see it? I do when I drive the worlds first RWD luxury hybrid. I saw it in the LFA in all its glory. I see it in our 400h, the worlds first luxury hybrid. Now everyone is rushing to make their luxury hybrids. Outside of Mercedes with the SLR, no other luxury brand has any car that can match the LFA.
Thats not R&D and technology? What do they need to make then? B/C they are making hybrids with world firsts and on the other end they are making exotics with a production process no one else has.
Again I think "technology" is a marketing/media world not thought out. I see Acura and LAUGH at their "we are technology" ads and PEOPLE ACTUALLY BELIEVE IT.
A brand that barely has a 6 speed and just got cooled seats. The media and advertising will have ignorant people believe that and that NAVIGATION is somehow the pinnacle of technology. Something I can buy at Wal-Mart. HUD is a technology, Lexus is slow to get it but does have it for instance. Hybrids? That is technology on another scale, something so difficult to produce and make reliable everyone is behind with it.
If people want to say Lexus is missing some technology features that is fine but there is no way in hell anyone can say they don't lead with the pinnacle of technology in hybrids and the LFA.
i don't think it matters if different models are refreshed at the same time.
people generally don't cross shop them. If i'm shopping for the GS, I'm not gonna look at the IS or ES or LS, so i don't care when the other models are released.
regardless of when it's released, a 3 year old car is a 3 year old car.
If there are other better alternative cars available in the class, I will look into them.
lexus can only blame themselves for the eventual GS sales failure. With $599 lease rates and no other incentives, no one had any reason to drive it.
a 3 year old bmw sells as well as its first year.
people generally don't cross shop them. If i'm shopping for the GS, I'm not gonna look at the IS or ES or LS, so i don't care when the other models are released.
regardless of when it's released, a 3 year old car is a 3 year old car.
If there are other better alternative cars available in the class, I will look into them.
lexus can only blame themselves for the eventual GS sales failure. With $599 lease rates and no other incentives, no one had any reason to drive it.
a 3 year old bmw sells as well as its first year.
I am seeing people bishing just to bish at this point. Funny, I didn't see you are others posting and jumping for joy with the GS sold 25k-30k units, 3rd in class in 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2006, 2007.....nope. What I do see is bashing and complaining when it gets old and doesn't sell well.
Ive said it a trillion times. The GS will NEVER sell like an E or 5 like the IS will never sell like a 3 and the X3 will never sell like an RX. Some cars are so dominant there is no way to beat it, so you get your piece of the pie and are happy with it. Anybody saying the GS should sell like the E or 5 clearly has no idea how impossible that is.
05-01-11, 04:34 PM
#75
Lexus Fanatic