whoster

Saw one again today.

Still ugly.

spwolf

Edmunds has both in their test fleet, and so far, Volt is more expensive to run than Prius (excluding the purchase price), and 10% less efficient in EV mode than Leaf... thats exactly what I am talking about.

Big Andy

That's a brilliant idea - stick the generator in the back, add a couple of jerry cans of petrol and you have an electric vehicle without the range issues. I'd ring Nissan and suggest it before someone else does.

mmarshall

Essentially that is what a plug-in hybrid already is.......an electric-powered car that, if not plugged-in, relies on a small amount of gas-power for electric-generation......and battery-storage.

LexFather

I meant to say I had no issues with the Leaf.. edited lol

speedflex

The leaf's value goes beyond the car itself. It's doing good things for the company's image. (See below) I don't see the Volt doing the same for GM so far.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/mart...d-in-the-world

Toyota's brand value jumped 11 percentage points this year, with the final tally resting at $24.2 billion. According to Millward Brown, the Prius was largely responsible for Toyota's boost: "Fuel efficiency became a hygiene factor, and Toyota’s Prius continued its market leadership."

BMW came in at #2 on the auto chart, its brand up by 3 percentage points. Mercedes came in third, up a very respectable 12. But the big mover in this year's study was Nissan, which surged a whopping 17 points in value to take the #6 spot. According to Millward Brown's global brand director, Peter Walshe, that jump is largely due to the launch of the 2011 Leaf EV and all the hype surrounding it: "Nissan is positioning itself as a green leader and its stance is paying off." Ford was the only U.S. company to make the automotive top ten, ranking #8 with a value of $7.4 billion.

Big Andy

I really must get into the habit of putting after my posts.

RXSF

I have seen a lot of leafs driving around. I think they look just special enough like the prius. I dont think they look bad

ggravant

I think it would depend on how they are using it. Both the Leaf and the Volt have limitations, but they can be efficient if they stay within those limitations. In my case a Volt would be fine because I only have a 7 mile relatively flat drive to work, so 99% of my daily driving could be 100% electric and I could just use gas for longer trips. It is true that if you have a Leaf that you could rent a car for that, but do I really want to do that every time I want to take, say a 40 mile trip to another part of the metro area with some driving around while I am there? That puts you pretty close to the max range of a Leaf (and less if it is cold or hot out and you have to run the heater/AC).

I also have the advantage of living in a state with 330+ sunny days a year, so if I added solar, that would help reduce the cost even further (slow down or spin the meter backward during the day, and charge at night).

spwolf

if you stay within Volt limitations, then you would be better off buying Leaf.

If you use Volt as even occasional long distance car, you are ending up not only paying 20k extra purchase price, but also you are not only spending more per mile driven than Prius but also polluting more than Prius.

spwolf

Edmunds Long term Volt and Leaf:

Volt non ev mpg: 32.7 MPG
Volt EV empg: 34.8 kwh/100 mi
Leaf EV empg: 31.5 kwh/100 mil (10% more efficient)

Volt price per mile: 8.6c per US average, 9.6 Cal average, 11.8c SoCal
Leaf price per mile: 3.4c per US average, 4.6c Cal average, 9.6 SoCal

Prius price per mile: 7.1c/7.7c USA/Cal
Fusion Hybrid per mile: 9.0c/9.9c USA/Cal

And just to repeat 32.7 MPG is because bad decisions. There will be other PHEVs introduced which will get 50 MPG when using gas.

And who will buy 130,000 Volts per year by 2013 as GM estimated just few months ago?

spwolf

More here:
http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtest...my-update.html

ggravant

Well, like I said, it is all about how you plan on using your car. If you can stay 100% electric, then yes, the Leaf would be better. But I know I could beat the yearly average MPGs of a Prius in my particular situation by a long shot. That Edmunds info still does not say HOW they are using the cars, which is a key consideration when buying any of these vehicles.

spwolf

if you read the article, it outlines exactly how they are using the vehicle.

ggravant

OK, since you are obviously not getting my point, here is some simple math for my particular situation:

Lets say I drive a Volt and a Prius 12000 miles per year. With the volt I am able to drive 9000 miles on electric and 3000 miles on gas. At 35mpg I end up using 85 gal of gas in 12000 miles of driving. At 55mpg the Prius would consume 218 gallons in that same period and mileage. So how is the Volt worse than a Prius?