spwolf

problem is that is that a lot of prius drivers in Europe are trying out CT200h and loving it, and dont know what there journalists are talking about.

Which is why CT200h is doubling Lexus sales in the Europe right now and there is 10-12 month waiting list at the moment.

So customers are voting with their wallets which shows the best if both British and mainstream German mags are correct or not.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

great articles! thorough.

spwolf

well it is obvious i guess since 116d is actual competition to CTh and not 3 series, but it would have appeared at disadvantage since it is it gets worse emissions than 320d while being slower.

It is a bit like putting CT450h in Rav4 vs CRV comparisment, since it gets better mpg, and disregard $13k difference in price.

of course, if you check bmw uk forums, you have a lot of those 320d drivers asking why is their car getting 20mpg in the city... you should send them your scans and write it off as their imagination...

LexFather

^^^ Yeah why did they pit 2 hatches vs 2 sedans against one another? Volvo has a C30 and BMW has a 1 series for instance. The Volvo C30 petrol and diesel can't hold a candle to the CTh.

So CT wasn't given a fair comparison test.

Vladi

Unless I got it wrong they say that 320d has better mileage but in the specs they list total "real world" fuel tank range and tank capacity of 583 miles anf 61l while CT is 467 miles using only 45l tank. So whats the catch?

speedflex

We'll have to wait and see what the long-term appeal of the CT is in Europe but initial interest is promising.

spwolf

British mags dont ever rate Toyota let alone Lexus well... so we have Yaris, Auris/Corolla, Avensis, Verso, Rav4 all rated as 3/5 star vehicles. Usually ones that they rate well dont sell well and vice versa.

In German mags, up until crisis, Toyotas got excellent reviews, but after crisis hit, all went downhill. For instance up until then, Auris was first vehicle to beat Golf in 25 year history, and Rav4 was comfortable class leader... On the other hand, absolutely same car, Auris, is rated 2.5 stars in British Aurocar while Golf is 5 stars :-).

On the other hand, no mass market Lexus ever got positive reviews... IS and RX are rated 3 stars in Autocar. Same in German mags.

spwolf

Here is the consumption:
1. CT200h 48 mpg
2. 320d 44 mpg
3 Volvo 38.5 mpg
4. Audi 33 mpg

Now what is really cool - same Audi A3 powertrain is in Golf, and that Golf beats CT200h in different Autocar comparo where autocar just shows official numbers and doesnt bother to list their real life numbers.

Maybe because ze german got 50% worse?

:-)

Big Andy

That's because a couple of years ago Autocar revised all their ratings as too many cars were getting 4 and 5 stars.

A 3 star rating means "70-75%. Competent. Above average in some areas, average in others. Outstanding in none."
Difficult to argue with that rating in respect of the IS and RX.
They also sum up the the IS as following: "Sleek junior exec, well made and interesting. Needs a better diesel".
And the RX: "Huge, high quality limo. Great refinement but high running costs" 3.5 stars (Good, competitive in key areas).
And also the GS: "Big exec saloon. Very refined, with decent performance"

So, yes, nothing positive there.

(The Audi A3 and A4 get 3-3.5 stars as well, as does the BMW 1-series, Golf is actually 4 stars - same as the iQ).

sndesign

No it just doesn't. They're both hatchbacks and made by Toyota. Oh and the whole 4 wheels, two headlights etc... thing.




Large

The reason why it may look out of place is because it's red and a hatchback, compared to black, white and silver cars, two of which are larger sedans.

grabber2

Another reason I never pay attention to European car review.....their market are different than USA. Europrean don't seem to put reliability into consideration when comes to reviews.

DustinV

Reliability is irrelevant when you're reviewing the merits of a car for a magazine.

Good reliability won't change the fact that the CT200h as a poor payload capacity rating, cramped backseat and only one engine option. These aspects actually matter to consumers.

And most cars sold here are reliable enough. Most people would switch brands if they're unhappy with the quality or reliability. The fact that people keep buying from certain brands indicates a high level of satisfaction on the one hand, and also that these cars are tailored to a certain market and thus appeal to buyers.

Here's a German consumer review about the CT200h from Auto Motor und Sport. They allowed forty random readers to test the CT200h and then wanted to hear their opinion.

Out of the forty people involved, ten said they wouldn't even consider the CT200h. The other thirty had mixed feelings about the car. All involved praised the interior quality, features, the quietness of the electric engine and the fuel economy.

On the downside, the sluggishness of the gasoline engine was criticized (many of the readers have torquey diesel cars), the poor payload capacity and small trunk and the cramped rear quarters. Another complaint was the lack of more engine options, as not everyone is interested in a hybrid. The price was also an issue. Hybrids are expensive in Europe and not everyone needs one or is convinced about the technology.

There were no serious complains about handling and performance - proof that the CT200h does alright in this aspect (and only performance-oriented magazines like EVO, BMW and Driver, Edmunds etc. make an issue out of this...).

Many of the participants were middle aged and older buyers who were looking to downsize from their bigger car to a smaller car like the CT. One Volkswagen Touran owner was interested in the CT200h as his next family car, but the small trunk and cramped rear quarters turned him off.

Most of the participants have family and the CT200h doesn't make an ideal family in that regard. The BMW 1er is in the same boat as the CT200h in terms of cramped rear quarters, but it comes with more engine options, has a large usable trunk and a high payload capacity. The A3 is even better than the 1er in that regard. The Mercedes A/B classes are the ideal family haulers in this niche as they're spacious inside, have large trunks etc.



Sorry for the poor shots. I took these with my smart phone.

spwolf

uhm, as I said, Auris is now rated 2.5 stars in Autocar, while in Autobild, which is German, was the first car to beat Golf in 25 years history of Autobild testing.

Those are quite huge differences between British and German magazines.

As I said before, Autocar never rated Toyota's well, I dont remember ever reading really positive review, they usually dont win any kind of comparo.

Autobild on the other hand, used to rate Toyota's as best in class - Auris and Rav4 won many comparos from the Autobild before the crisis hit. Now again it is impossible for non-german car to win anything in Autobild again :-).

Neither mag ever rated sellable Lexus models well, and IS and RX for instance never won an comparo in either, even when freshly introduced. For instance, if they rate powertrain well (and Autobild loves Hybrid powertrain in GS450h and RX450h), then it is car that is just not good enough.

Actually, Autobild has great commeting system where German people love to comment the results, when VW wins every test a lot of them cry faul.

spwolf

And I grew up on German mags, I used to have every edition of Autobild and Auto Motor und Sport.

When I first arrived in USA, i though Japanese cars are copy cat POS that break as soon as warranty expires. I still remember small 1/4 of the page review of LS400 in Autobild, where they trashed it as S class copy cat and claimed it was so soft, it couldnt go into the turns.

:-)

Big Andy

The Auris did indeed narrowly beat the previous model Golf in an Autobild test. The test was between two 2.0 litre diesel models and cheaper price of the Auris was the deciding factor. Autobild acknowledged that had both vehicles been the same price then the Golf would have won. There's nothing wrong with the Auris - it's a perfectly good car (and built in the UK) and I'm no great fan of the Golf, but in terms of interior quality/ambience, handling and engine choice it is superior. 5 mins in either will confirm that.

Whether the Auris warrants 2.5 stars and the Golf, 4 stars, is subjective. To sum up Autocar rates the Auris as "acceptable, average in key areas, but disappoints" and the Golf as "very good, very competitive in key areas, competitive in secondary respects", which is probably about right - bearing in mind that rating was given when the Auris was first released and since then the engines have been upgraded. I do think that now the Auris would score higher, in particular the hybrid, and I do think it'll be more reliable.

In fact, here's a good review of the Auris:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road-tes...-auris-hybrid/