Will Surging Gas Prices Save the Honda Insight?
05-14-11, 10:24 AM
#1
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Will Surging Gas Prices Save the Honda Insight?
An interesting question.
The notoriously slow-selling Insight seems to have gotten a boost from $4-a-gallon gasoline, though it still trails Prius sales by a considerable margin. I was beginning to wonder, for a while, if Honda was going to just drop the Insight altogether here in the U.S., but that now seems less likely. In April, Insight sales were up 62% over a year ago.
This is a good article, and (from my review-experience) accurately describes both the Prius and Insight.
http://www.greencarreports.com/blog/...-honda-insight
The Toyota Prius is the best-selling hybrid vehicle of all time and recently passed three million sales globally and a million in the U.S., over more than a decade. And when fuel prices rise, so has demand for the Prius and other high-mileage vehicles.
So then, why hasn't it for the Honda Insight? Ever since its introduction more than two years ago, the Insight hasn't been able to find the same traction in the green-car market.
Numbers count
While the Insight has a shape that's nearly as distinctive as that of the Prius, fuel economy might be one of the key reasons: While the Prius comes with EPA ratings of 51 mpg city, 48 highway, the Insight has ratings of 40/43. While excellent, they're not superstar territory and in the same league as the Prius to many shoppers—even though we've seen real-world numbers with the Insight that are much better than the EPA's.
Last week, Ward's reported that sales of the Insight for March were up more than 62 percent versus year-ago levels, to 2,782 units. On a percentage basis, that's a bigger increase than the 52-percent increase of the Toyota Prius, year over year, but, but the Insight's first-quarter sales of just over 6,000 are only a small fraction of the nearly 43,000 Prius models sold during the same period.
So far, an underachiever
Honda's original goal for the Insight around launch time was 200,000 per year globally and 90,000 annually for the U.S., but in the model's first calendar year (March 2009 through February 2010), it sold just over 130,000 worldwide and in each of its two years on sale has sold just over 20,000 in the U.S.
Transaction prices for the Prius, meanwhile, have soared—from about $300 under dealer invoice a little over a month ago, at the time of the March 11 earthquake in Japan, to slightly over MSRP about a week ago. That's a $2,000 price increase in just over a month.
Gas prices are continuing to climb, too. The current national-average pump price of a gallon of regular gasoline stands at $3.82; that's only about three cents higher than last week, but nearly 30 cents higher than a month ago and 65 cents higher than two months ago, according to figures from GasBuddy.com.
No geek factor, yet well left of mainstream
The Insight has never quite competed with the Prius in several key areas: Its backseat space is more limited, particularly in headroom; some think it doesn't ride nearly as well as the Prius; and the Insight doesn't offer nearly as many high-tech options as the Prius—like lane-keep assist, adaptive cruise, and automatic parking. In other words, the Insight doesn't quite have the geek factor, yet the mainstream market never found it.
Pricing, of course, is the other issue. Toyota ended up positioning and pricing the redesigned 2010 Toyota Prius, which came out a few months after the Insight's launch, considerably lower than expected, which for shoppers only looking at the EPA fuel economy figures meant the Insight didn't look like as strong of a deal. Honda did however roll out a more affordable version in the 2011 Insight.
But, as we reported last week over at The Car Connection, there are more factors this time that could lead to an especially tight market, with transaction prices on many small and high-mileage cars expected to surge through much of this year
Pace picking up, but supply probably not ready to step in
And the long-overlooked Honda Insight is now starting to move off showrooms and lots at a faster rate. Last week, TrueCar told The Car Connection that the Insight is one of several cars that the company is already seeing in tight supply, with higher transaction prices expected just around the corner.
Of course there's one big question: If Honda's other Japanese-built vehicles are affected by the supply issues, the Insight will, too. So while small cars might move faster for a while, what's already on lots will just go a little faster. That's good for dealerships, but not good for hybrid buyers, and probably not even good for Honda.
Will it lead more people to discover the Insight—or at least find some happiness in its compromises? Would more people consider it with gasoline at $5 a gallon? Let us know what you think.
The notoriously slow-selling Insight seems to have gotten a boost from $4-a-gallon gasoline, though it still trails Prius sales by a considerable margin. I was beginning to wonder, for a while, if Honda was going to just drop the Insight altogether here in the U.S., but that now seems less likely. In April, Insight sales were up 62% over a year ago.
This is a good article, and (from my review-experience) accurately describes both the Prius and Insight.
http://www.greencarreports.com/blog/...-honda-insight
The Toyota Prius is the best-selling hybrid vehicle of all time and recently passed three million sales globally and a million in the U.S., over more than a decade. And when fuel prices rise, so has demand for the Prius and other high-mileage vehicles.
So then, why hasn't it for the Honda Insight? Ever since its introduction more than two years ago, the Insight hasn't been able to find the same traction in the green-car market.
Numbers count
While the Insight has a shape that's nearly as distinctive as that of the Prius, fuel economy might be one of the key reasons: While the Prius comes with EPA ratings of 51 mpg city, 48 highway, the Insight has ratings of 40/43. While excellent, they're not superstar territory and in the same league as the Prius to many shoppers—even though we've seen real-world numbers with the Insight that are much better than the EPA's.
Last week, Ward's reported that sales of the Insight for March were up more than 62 percent versus year-ago levels, to 2,782 units. On a percentage basis, that's a bigger increase than the 52-percent increase of the Toyota Prius, year over year, but, but the Insight's first-quarter sales of just over 6,000 are only a small fraction of the nearly 43,000 Prius models sold during the same period.
So far, an underachiever
Honda's original goal for the Insight around launch time was 200,000 per year globally and 90,000 annually for the U.S., but in the model's first calendar year (March 2009 through February 2010), it sold just over 130,000 worldwide and in each of its two years on sale has sold just over 20,000 in the U.S.
Transaction prices for the Prius, meanwhile, have soared—from about $300 under dealer invoice a little over a month ago, at the time of the March 11 earthquake in Japan, to slightly over MSRP about a week ago. That's a $2,000 price increase in just over a month.
Gas prices are continuing to climb, too. The current national-average pump price of a gallon of regular gasoline stands at $3.82; that's only about three cents higher than last week, but nearly 30 cents higher than a month ago and 65 cents higher than two months ago, according to figures from GasBuddy.com.
No geek factor, yet well left of mainstream
The Insight has never quite competed with the Prius in several key areas: Its backseat space is more limited, particularly in headroom; some think it doesn't ride nearly as well as the Prius; and the Insight doesn't offer nearly as many high-tech options as the Prius—like lane-keep assist, adaptive cruise, and automatic parking. In other words, the Insight doesn't quite have the geek factor, yet the mainstream market never found it.
Pricing, of course, is the other issue. Toyota ended up positioning and pricing the redesigned 2010 Toyota Prius, which came out a few months after the Insight's launch, considerably lower than expected, which for shoppers only looking at the EPA fuel economy figures meant the Insight didn't look like as strong of a deal. Honda did however roll out a more affordable version in the 2011 Insight.
But, as we reported last week over at The Car Connection, there are more factors this time that could lead to an especially tight market, with transaction prices on many small and high-mileage cars expected to surge through much of this year
Pace picking up, but supply probably not ready to step in
And the long-overlooked Honda Insight is now starting to move off showrooms and lots at a faster rate. Last week, TrueCar told The Car Connection that the Insight is one of several cars that the company is already seeing in tight supply, with higher transaction prices expected just around the corner.
Of course there's one big question: If Honda's other Japanese-built vehicles are affected by the supply issues, the Insight will, too. So while small cars might move faster for a while, what's already on lots will just go a little faster. That's good for dealerships, but not good for hybrid buyers, and probably not even good for Honda.
Will it lead more people to discover the Insight—or at least find some happiness in its compromises? Would more people consider it with gasoline at $5 a gallon? Let us know what you think.
05-14-11, 03:34 PM
#2
Subjectively speaking, I just can't stand Honda. Their mentality when it comes to design and engineering is so delusional and dated. Quite frankly I'm glad their sales goals aren't being met, because they need to do a better job of offering products that consumers want to buy rather than feel they need to buy just because society deems "reliability and fuel economy" important. I should add, I'm all for the aforementioned, but things like design and engineering and safety and fun factor should also be counted as well.
I've said it time and again. Honda is stuck in the past. With their super conservative views in regards to design and engineering built on "if it ain't broke don't fix it", I just don't see how they can evolve. With companies such as Hyundai adding a "fluidic" design language, Ford with it's "kinetic", and Lexus with it's "L-Finesse" as just a few examples. Both the exterior and interior of their products have become more modern and streamlined. Honda on the other hand is a mystery box of shapes and bulkiness and a dash of awkward.
Another thing that bothers me about Honda, is they refuse to give in to their consumer and enthusiasts fan base that beg for Honda to offer (V8, RWD, NSX Supercar, Sport coupes, mid engine, RSX, Prelude, Integra, S2000 etc..). Instead offering dull packages with aging tech and questionable design language. Aging engines and transmissions can only go so far. Makes me wonder what happened to Honda's R&D department??? Why not a true hybrid. Why this IMA BS. What about a Hybrid Accord? They can't rely on Accord, Civic, CRV and Odyessy forever. Honda to me is like a child star actor who never grew up.
It's not just Honda (a lot of automakers are going through this design identity crisis ie Mazda, BMW etc..) but Honda in particular needs to "find themselves" before they lose themselves.
End Rant lol
I've said it time and again. Honda is stuck in the past. With their super conservative views in regards to design and engineering built on "if it ain't broke don't fix it", I just don't see how they can evolve. With companies such as Hyundai adding a "fluidic" design language, Ford with it's "kinetic", and Lexus with it's "L-Finesse" as just a few examples. Both the exterior and interior of their products have become more modern and streamlined. Honda on the other hand is a mystery box of shapes and bulkiness and a dash of awkward.
Another thing that bothers me about Honda, is they refuse to give in to their consumer and enthusiasts fan base that beg for Honda to offer (V8, RWD, NSX Supercar, Sport coupes, mid engine, RSX, Prelude, Integra, S2000 etc..). Instead offering dull packages with aging tech and questionable design language. Aging engines and transmissions can only go so far. Makes me wonder what happened to Honda's R&D department??? Why not a true hybrid. Why this IMA BS. What about a Hybrid Accord? They can't rely on Accord, Civic, CRV and Odyessy forever. Honda to me is like a child star actor who never grew up.
It's not just Honda (a lot of automakers are going through this design identity crisis ie Mazda, BMW etc..) but Honda in particular needs to "find themselves" before they lose themselves.
End Rant lol
05-14-11, 04:14 PM
#4
Lexus Fanatic
Certainly a reasonable question, it's sad that surging gas prices are the only possible hope for Insight (and the surge is flat-lining and drooping a bit already).
The current gen Prius has sold well in the US since it's introduction despite gas price changes. I certainly know which car I find to be acceptable (only 1 of the 2), but that's just my opinion.
The current gen Prius has sold well in the US since it's introduction despite gas price changes. I certainly know which car I find to be acceptable (only 1 of the 2), but that's just my opinion.
05-14-11, 05:11 PM
#6
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The Insight doesn't sell not because of its MPG, but because it isn't a very good car. It's cheaper than a Prius, but you get a whole lot less car than a Prius. Basically the Prius wins in every measure AND gets better MPG.
05-14-11, 08:40 PM
#8
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
05-15-11, 01:14 PM
#9
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The Insight, compared to the Prius, from what I saw in my reviews, seems to have better sheet-metal, more-solid interior trim/materials, less-geeky dash/controls and, like other Hondas, Swiss-Watch-precise assembly quality. It also seems to handle a little better. But there's no question that the Prius has a far better hybrid drivetrain (it's both more refined and more efficient), and its back seat is much roomier than than the Insight's, which is basically just for kids.
Higher gas prices can't help what is sadly a craptastic vehicle. Its hard to imagine they had all this time to make a new insight and this is the best they could come up with.
05-15-11, 02:22 PM
#10
Lexus Fanatic
Agreed, Insight has no real or significant advantages over Prius and astute buyers know it and put real money down accordingly. Even a premium car enthusiast can appreciate what the Prius has evolved and been redesigned into.
05-15-11, 05:25 PM
#11
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I don't totally disagree, Mike. I've looked at both cars thoroughly and agree neither one has what I would call a nice interior. I just feel that the Insight uses somewhat more-durable and precisely-assembled materials inside. And there's no question, as I stated in my post, that the Prius has a better drivetrain and more room in the back seat.
05-15-11, 05:58 PM
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
I don't totally disagree, Mike. I've looked at both cars thoroughly and agree neither one has what I would call a nice interior. I just feel that the Insight uses somewhat more-durable and precisely-assembled materials inside. And there's no question, as I stated in my post, that the Prius has a better drivetrain and more room in the back seat.
Consumer Reports ranked it 21 out of 22 vehicles. http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/30/i...nks-it-21-out/
"The Insight is the most disappointing Honda Consumer Reports has tested in a long time," said David Champion, senior director of CR's Auto Test Center. "The Insight is a noisy, stiff-riding car with clumsy handling that is nothing like the Fit on which it is based.
So here goes. It’s terrible. Biblically terrible. Possibly the worst new car money can buy. It’s the first car I’ve ever considered crashing into a tree, on purpose, so I didn’t have to drive it any more.
There’s more. Normally, Hondas feel as though they have been screwed together by eye surgeons. This one, however, feels as if it’s been made from steel so thin, you could read through it. And the seats, finished in pleblon, are designed specifically, it seems, to ruin your skeleton. This is hairy-shirted eco-ism at its very worst.
05-15-11, 09:59 PM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
The Insight is just not a very good effort from Honda. Honda did have a good base plan with making a more affordable hybrid that is cheaper then the Prius since paying a premium for a hybrid makes little to no financial sense in most cases but they did not execute it very well nor count on Toyota simply lowering the price on the new Prius after they saw what the Insight would cost. The exterior styling is weak, interior nothing special and pretty plain for a Honda though it is probably put together well like mmarshall says.
I don't think the Insight needs a higly advanced powertrain because that will make it more expensive as long as it is priced lower and gets decent fuel economy which it does but it needs more power, they need to work on the rubberbanding drivetrain issues, and it needs a much better designed edgier exterior and interior. If it would have resembled a Honda FCX clarity inside and out and had more power and a more refined drivetrain then what it has now, it would have sold much better then what they they came up with, at least in the US. It has been successful in Japan but definitely not in the US, hopefully they learned from their mistakes and come up with something much more worthy of a Honda badge.
I don't think the Insight needs a higly advanced powertrain because that will make it more expensive as long as it is priced lower and gets decent fuel economy which it does but it needs more power, they need to work on the rubberbanding drivetrain issues, and it needs a much better designed edgier exterior and interior. If it would have resembled a Honda FCX clarity inside and out and had more power and a more refined drivetrain then what it has now, it would have sold much better then what they they came up with, at least in the US. It has been successful in Japan but definitely not in the US, hopefully they learned from their mistakes and come up with something much more worthy of a Honda badge.
05-15-11, 10:38 PM
#14
Subjectively speaking, I just can't stand Honda. Their mentality when it comes to design and engineering is so delusional and dated. Quite frankly I'm glad their sales goals aren't being met, because they need to do a better job of offering products that consumers want to buy rather than feel they need to buy just because society deems "reliability and fuel economy" important. I should add, I'm all for the aforementioned, but things like design and engineering and safety and fun factor should also be counted as well.
I've said it time and again. Honda is stuck in the past. With their super conservative views in regards to design and engineering built on "if it ain't broke don't fix it", I just don't see how they can evolve. With companies such as Hyundai adding a "fluidic" design language, Ford with it's "kinetic", and Lexus with it's "L-Finesse" as just a few examples. Both the exterior and interior of their products have become more modern and streamlined. Honda on the other hand is a mystery box of shapes and bulkiness and a dash of awkward.
Another thing that bothers me about Honda, is they refuse to give in to their consumer and enthusiasts fan base that beg for Honda to offer (V8, RWD, NSX Supercar, Sport coupes, mid engine, RSX, Prelude, Integra, S2000 etc..). Instead offering dull packages with aging tech and questionable design language. Aging engines and transmissions can only go so far. Makes me wonder what happened to Honda's R&D department??? Why not a true hybrid. Why this IMA BS. What about a Hybrid Accord? They can't rely on Accord, Civic, CRV and Odyessy forever. Honda to me is like a child star actor who never grew up.
It's not just Honda (a lot of automakers are going through this design identity crisis ie Mazda, BMW etc..) but Honda in particular needs to "find themselves" before they lose themselves.
End Rant lol
I've said it time and again. Honda is stuck in the past. With their super conservative views in regards to design and engineering built on "if it ain't broke don't fix it", I just don't see how they can evolve. With companies such as Hyundai adding a "fluidic" design language, Ford with it's "kinetic", and Lexus with it's "L-Finesse" as just a few examples. Both the exterior and interior of their products have become more modern and streamlined. Honda on the other hand is a mystery box of shapes and bulkiness and a dash of awkward.
Another thing that bothers me about Honda, is they refuse to give in to their consumer and enthusiasts fan base that beg for Honda to offer (V8, RWD, NSX Supercar, Sport coupes, mid engine, RSX, Prelude, Integra, S2000 etc..). Instead offering dull packages with aging tech and questionable design language. Aging engines and transmissions can only go so far. Makes me wonder what happened to Honda's R&D department??? Why not a true hybrid. Why this IMA BS. What about a Hybrid Accord? They can't rely on Accord, Civic, CRV and Odyessy forever. Honda to me is like a child star actor who never grew up.
It's not just Honda (a lot of automakers are going through this design identity crisis ie Mazda, BMW etc..) but Honda in particular needs to "find themselves" before they lose themselves.
End Rant lol
!I doubt the Insight can be saved unless gas goes up to $5+ all over the country.
05-16-11, 12:43 PM
#15
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
So here goes. It’s terrible. Biblically terrible. Possibly the worst new car money can buy. It’s the first car I’ve ever considered crashing into a tree, on purpose, so I didn’t have to drive it any more.