Lexuslvr91

From GMInsidenews

Lexuslvr91

Reminds me of a better interpretation of the E-class in the front:

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

gm could definitely beat everyone. despite all the chaos and reorganization, they are still a formidable engineering force. their magneto-ride suspension is the best in the world. their interiors and exteriors on many models have improved by gigantic leaps in recent years. their engines are now world class.
like any maker they're not perfect, and i will never buy one until and unless ALL the govt money is paid back, but no one can dismiss their capabilities. the gm of old (detroit arrogance and sloppiness) appears to have gone.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

that looks REALLY good.

T0ked

iTrader: (2)

Looks great! A wonderful continued evolution of the A&S design statement, from what has been revealed so far. Can't wait to see this car.

geko29

I'm actually kinda hoping it does. When I finally replace my E46 3-series, I was planning on moving up to a 5. If the F10 was an evolution of the E60, that would still be the plan, but it got fat and ponderous, so it's out the window. If I wanted a 7, I'd buy a 7.

So I think I was the only person who was happy to see the 3 is probably getting bigger. I'll be able to get the E60 replacement I wanted, at the price of an E90 replacement.

Back on topic, this ATS don't look too bad. I wonder when/if there'll be a "V"?

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

I can't think of any GM car that makes me view the company as a formidable engineering force, much less do I have the faith that they could "beat" engineering powerhouses like BMW, Mercedes, or even Toyota and VWAG. Maybe the Volt, but that car hasn't really been a success last time I looked. Corvette has always been great but so is the GTR and super-versions of the Mustang.

GM is good at building big V8s and strapping them into decent chasses (CTS-V, Corvette) but I can't think of much else.

They're still riddled with quality problems across the lineup and their interiors remain 2-3 steps behind much of the competition. Cadillac interiors are no better built or assembled than those of an Acura or Volvo. Buick's are pretty cheap when you get past the wood and chrome at face value. Exterior design is definitely on the up and up, but that doesn't have much to do with engineering.

I think there are sparks of promise at GM, but overall, their product is pretty average IMO.

LexFather

If Lexus debuted a teaser of the IS where it looks exactly like the GS, people would burn the site down. This looks exactly like a shrunken CTS, which is nice, great design but no imagination.

Alucard

I still think Cadillac needs a five-passenger convertible ala the last few Sebring convertibles.

And GM needs to quit putting the little "GM" logo on the exteriors of its other brands. Why have a seperate branding strategy if you're going to slap a GM mark on everything?

bruce van

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is the CTS in the same segment as the BMW 3-series? Price wise, they are similar no?

MR_F1

So basically they are reverse engineering a 3 Series? ... Even the design?

God, just... why?

True that. I think it looks like the CTS had an orgy with a C and a 3 though....

It's sized closer to a 5 Series.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

T0ked

iTrader: (2)

Fit and finish and weight control are the main areas GM needs to concentrate on. There are still misconceptions about GM that people spread that had their merit back in the day, but most of the general's new offerings are quite competitive. The CTS is a great offering, competing in size with the 5 and E but priced more like a 3 or C. You cannot compare the corvette with anything out there. Three performance it offers for the price is unequal. The interior of the new Cruz and the upcoming malibu, and the current Malibu, is definitely on par with the current Camry and the new Jetta for sure. And have you even sat in a Buick? The interiors are down right Lexus- like. Not quite equal, but then again they also price their cars lower. GM and Ford have made huge strides in the quality of their cars where three difference between them and the imports are getting smaller and smaller. The old stereotypes just don't fit anymore.

This new Caddy looks gorgeous and if the CTS is any indication, should be great car inside and out.

DustinV

Actually, the [magazine] sources that claim that certain brands gun for the 3er probably are just saying that in order to create buzz and sell their product. I'm sure that some brands themselves put out such rumors in order to create buzz for their own products and excite potential customers.

But, I don't think some of these brands try to build a 3 series beater at all. To me, the 3er has a somewhat "overrated reputation" brought about by the overall enthusiasm for the BMW brand by many people, BMW fan(boy)s and of course BMW and Driver, excuse me, Car and Driver magazine. It's a great driving machine, no doubt, but it's not the car everyone should be aiming for. The vast majority of people who buy a BMW 3 series don't care about driving. They care about the BMW badge on the hood. And the vast majority of people shopping in this class don't care about sporty handling like most enthusiasts do. In the end, the handling competence of all cars in this class is capable and sporty in their own way.

If say Mercedes' were serious about producing a 3 series beater, they'd offer a manual transmission in their C350 for example. They don't. Mercedes has a lot of motorsport history and experience. I'd say they can easily produce a 3 series beater if they wanted to - but they don't. Why? Because their C class sells based on a different formula, one that combines sport, comfort and luxury in a balanced package. By most accounts the 3er is a very sporty car but doesn't perform that well in the comfort and luxury aspect: the C class does and that's what sells it.

Personally, I'd like to see Audi, Mercedes, Infiniti, Lexus etc. follow their own philosophy in regards to what their A4, C class, G and IS should be. If all these cars drove like a BMW 3er, well, that would be really, really, really BORING and DULL to be honest.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

I've sat in a few different LaCrosse models as well as the Regal, and I could not disagree with you more. Buick has done a good job of making the cabin appear well built at face value...wood trim abound, enough chrome to blind you if the sun shines the right way, soothing blue back lighting, but when you get past that, the cabin is really quite low grade.

The ES probably has the most downmarket interior of all Lexus sedans, but when you sit in it back to back with a LaCrosse, there is no comparison. The gaps between the door and dash in the LaCrosse are big enough to slide a finger into. The plastics on the dash and center console are almost brittle feeling.

People harp on the Camry for panel gaps and flimsy plastics...but the LaCrosse gets a pass? When I first sat in a LaCrosse CXL, the materials and build quality actually reminded me a lot of the 6th gen Camry XLE...again...several grades below an ES350.

Regal is even worse with black hard plastic all over the dash.

I'm really not trying to pick on Buick and I can acknowledge that they've come a long way just in the last few years, but they also have a long, long way to go before they catch tier 2-3 brands like Volvo or Acura. Lexus is the most obvious target because their philosophy is rather similar - quiet, comfortable cars - but the execution really couldn't be more dissimilar.