IS-SV

Yes, and that much downforce is actually increasing resistance (via super-riced spoiler), not what a hybrid owner obsessed with MPG is looking for.

But to your point, MPG is down the toilet I guess in this version.

btw - the pic looks a bit ricey

10minutes

Low 13s? No way. Probably more like high 13s at best.

I'm sure it will still be a relatively good performer around corners.
But expect its price to be close to 30k.

spwolf

honestly i think thats double standards... is FT-86's spoiler going to be rice even if it is race tested on purpose?

I dont particularly care for honda as i think that they dont have the ***** and are weird, but there are double standards here in play.

LexFather

Correct me if I am wrong but downforce is downforce at speeds, doesn't matter if the car is FWD or RWD or AWD. The point of the spoiler is to push air down so there is no rear lift and that has NOTHING to do with if it is FWD or RWD correct?

While I doubt this car will be seen at speeds at 100-150 MPH often to warrant such a large spoiler (and increasing drag in the process) that is why it has a rear wing.

If I am wrong, someone please chime in.

spwolf

sure.

and is GT3 ricer mobile? It is one thing when some l0ser puts huge wing and another when car company does it after performance testing.

Blackraven

I like it. It's the CRZ made better (at least IMHO)

IS-SV

Call it double standard, I call it good taste.

IMO, the GT3 and previews of FT-86 look much better.

UDel

What wheels are driven has nothing really to do with the need for downforce. A high performance FWD car is going to suffer the same lift/instability issues at higher speeds as a RWD car.

UDel

I like it but not much of a fan of the black hood, it would look better if it was body colored. There is a higher performance regular factory version of the CR-Z coming but unfortunately it is most likely still going to be a hybrid and it is doubtful it is going to be close to 200hp. It will most likely have a more efficient Li-ion battery. The spoiler does not bother me at all and gives it a nice aggressive look plus aids in downforce. Spoilers if designed and tested correctly normally slightly improve fuel economy well as downforce.

LexFather

One of the few times we agree. So like I said, red S badges= the slow

madmax2k1

I love how people pull statements out of their *** and present them as facts; I researched this issue further and found out the following statement from Wikipedia:

"Spoilers function by disrupting airflow passing over and around a moving vehicle. This diffusion is accomplished by increasing amounts of turbulence flowing over the shape, "spoiling" the laminar flow and providing a cushion for the laminar boundary layer. Often spoilers are added solely for appearance with no thought towards practical purpose."

Spoilers do not generate down-force; wings do
Most spoilers on passenger cars are for rice purposes

Source of this info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoiler_%28automotive%29

UDel

Nobody is pulling anything out their ***. Your statement "Rear down-force on a FWD car?" was taken by 1Sicklex and I as saying there would be no need for downforce or stability in a fwd car as opposed to a rwd. The driven wheels does not really determine if a car needs or could benefit from some type of downforce or something to aid in stability/reduce lift. A high performance fwd car would benefit like a high performance rwd car with a properly integrated spoiler or wing if it added downforce, increased stability, or decreased lift and kept it more stable at higher speeds.

Here is also a quote on information about a "wing" on Wiki.

"Effects of Wings on Different Drive Trains

Wings have an application in any drive train type, depending on the goal. Any car that can be made to oversteer, including front wheel drive cars, can benefit from the addition of wings.
[edit] Wings in Automotive trends

It has become fashionable to add wings to cars as an aftermarket fashion accessory. Such wings are typically useless and often compromise performance measurably."

As far as your link to wiki if you read it you would also see this

"The main design goal of a spoiler in passenger vehicles is to reduce drag and increase fuel efficiency"
"Sports cars are most commonly seen with front and rear spoilers. Even though these vehicles typically have a more rigid chassis and a stiffer suspension to aid in high speed maneuverability, a spoiler can still be beneficial. This is because many vehicles have a fairly steep downward angle going from the rear edge of the roof down to the trunk or tail of the car. At high speeds, air flowing across the roof tumbles over this edge, causing air flow separation. The flow of air becomes turbulent and a low-pressure zone is created, increasing drag and instability (see Bernoulli effect). Adding a rear spoiler makes the air "see" a longer, gentler slope from the roof to the spoiler, which helps to delay flow separation. This decreases drag, increases fuel economy, and helps keep the rear window clean."






I never said in every single case a spoiler or wing aids in fuel economy(Big Wings don't aid in fuel economy and generally worsen it because they increase drag) or has much of an effect on reducing lift, increasing grip, and increasing downforce. I said "Spoilers if designed and tested correctly normally slightly improve fuel economy" which is not pulling anything, I am including "wings" when I talk about "spoilers" because most people don't separate them even though they are technically different, most people lump them together when talking about pieces added or integrated to the front or rear of a car to either aid in stability, downforce, fuel economy, or enhance the looks. Very few production cars or tuner cars have a "wing" attached to them because they are very large and ungainly, the Plymoth superbird was one of the few. It is true and has been known for a long time spoilers and wings can and do increase grip/stability by reducing lift but in other cases you are correct that they are purely cosmetic.

If the Mugen CR-Z was tested and showed lift and drag were reduced from the added spoiler and even fuel economy slightly improved then it is not just cosmetic or rice and it is somewhat beneficial no matter what wheels are driven.

LexFather

Except you are completely wrong again. You came in here trying to crap on the car for being FWD with a wing b/c "FWD doesn't need downforce" which is absolutely wrong. Another example of people thinking they are cool with a red badge and a RWD car that knows nothing about cars.

Absolutely correct. And while we both know I am no huge Honda fan Mugen is a serious aftermarket brand (I believe owned by Mr. Honda's son) and they put functional aero parts on their cars. The wing would then serve a true purpose b/c Mugen has a reputation and heritage for it.

lmfao that a fWD doesn't need a wing to reduce lift.

madmax2k1

wow, are you dense or what? did you even read what I posted? spoilers do not generate downforce, wings do. furthermore, most manufacturers use spoilers for looks, so there is no proof that the CR-Z spoiler is functional.

you need to come up with new material, the red S badge joke has run its course.

you should stick to Hybrid car discussions since this is the area where you suck at the least.

LexFather

What the do you think a rear spoiler is? Google "rear spoiler" and look what pops up

http://www.google.com/search?client=...w=1280&bih=622



The same person who tryed to call an ES a rebadge of a Camry when you drive a Nissan Skyline rebadge

You were wrong trying to say a high performance FWD car doesn't need a wing/rear spoiler. Period.

The big red S stands for "the slow"