Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Report: NHTSA expected to mandate black boxes in all cars next month

Are you ready for a black box to be installed in your car? The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration apparently is. According to a new report from Wired, NHTSA is expected to rule next month that all new cars will need to carry just such a device.

Now, before you get all "Screw the Gubment!" in the comments, you should know that many modern cars already have black box systems installed – you might have one and not even know it. General Motors, for instance, has been installed the electronic data recorders since the 1990s, on almost all vehicles fitted with airbags.

The concern for most drivers, however, lies with what type of information is captured, and who has access to it. Also, different automakers use different Electronic Data Recorder devices. A black box standard needs to be developed, which would allow for the data retrieved from an EDR to be consistent regardless of the vehicle make it's pulled from.

Some view this mandate as an invasion of motorists' privacy. However, the data recovered from the black box systems can provide crucial insight into crash dynamics. Exactly who's allowed to view that information varies by state, of course, and only 13 states currently have legislation in place regulating the release of EDR data.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/24/n...rs-next-month/

RXSF

meh, as the article says, our cars already have them.

mmarshall

While I agree that, in a free society such as ours, oversight powers and technology should not be limitless, I don't necessarily agree that this is an invasion of privacy, for several reasons. First, in all 50 states, driving (and your Drivers' License itself) is legally a priviledge, not a Constitutional right. Second, vehicle-motion recordings can be crucial in law enforcement and in court-trials determining what actually happened in accidents/incidents, who is lying, and who isn't. Third, the spread of anti-lock brake systems and traction/stability-controls has made traditional accident-investigations by looking at tire-skid-marks on the pavement much more difficult. These systems don't allow the tires to leave much of a mark on the pavement anymore, so you can't tell how fast the vehicle was going (or how much it slid/skidded in a turn) just by the length or nature of the black-rubber marks. Fourth, the mileage-recorders in the black boxes allows those who lie to their insurance-companies about how many miles they average each year to be more easily caught (insurance companies often use yearly-mileage-driven as one factor in determining premiums).

spwolf

before it was very hard even for law enforcement to get the content... now it will be very easy.

Although I am sure that it will not be "next month" there will be probably some date like 2013 or something like that

mmarshall

If a judge or magistrate decided that the info was needed for a specific law-enforcement-case or trial, it usually wasn't hard at all.......just took one quick swipe of a pen.


Yes, I agree. You can't just impose a requirement of this magnitude right out of thin air and require installation tomorrow. Automakers and suppliers will need to have time to arrange for adequate supplies of the devices, re-tool their assembly-lines for installation, and, of course, any additional training required for the assembly-line workers. In addition, of course, the details of the legal requirements of how the data is unloaded and who gets to see it first have to be worked out. Last, NHTSA may not have the last word on this matter. If there is sufficient opposition in Congress, it can be blocked by legislative action or a Presidential order.....though I don't see Obama nixing an action of this type by an agency of his own Administration.

IS-SV

I don't see enough information here to reach any meaningful conclusions on blackboxes in cars (which already exist).

spwolf

not true... I think during recalls they said that Toyota did it once or twice in the history.

mmarshall

The thread, as you note, is not so much a discussion of new conclusions as it is of existing ones. But, of course, the requirement for auto-industry-wide installation of the devices (which does not exist at present, nor does across-the-board installation) puts new demands on automakers, which I outlined in my last post. And, there is always the inevitable conflict between those who feel it is an invasion of privacy and those who don't.......that's not going to go away.

LexFather

Link to the original article...good read....with a case in Florida it talks about

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2011/05...e-black-boxes/

As for black boxes at this rate just stick a cell phone up our butts with GPS on and call it a life. Privacy is dead as we know it. Sadly the mantra "you shouldn't be doing anything bad anyway" is used as an excuse to invade our lives.

spwolf

what will happen is auto insurance industry will get access to it when you have any kind of claim and then if you did anything wrong, they will deny the claim.

LexFather

Well in some cases they already do already but this will mean an explosion of cases with black-box data and maybe a complete change in insurance rates eventually etc etc.

mmarshall

Even if insurance companies do get the data, in many cases, the police, judges, and juries will still determine fault in an accident, not insurance companies. Accidents on private-property, though, where police are often not involved, may be closer to the scenario you pose...the two insurance companies (if applicable) will settle it with their lawyers. But the best-case scenario that you menton might be if and when insurance companies determine that you are driving more miles each year than you are actually paying for in coverage....then, of course, they can either bump-up your premium-rates or drop your policy altogether.

cenix

what we should do is limit the amount of nonsense government spending and monitor/limit spending before monitoring motorists with black boxes.

Indio

iTrader: (1)

Making anything easier for insurance companies is a bad analogy imo, rates are already based on driving record and credit reports , now with devices like Progressive's Snapshot they will now know where you drive, when, how far and even how you brake, insurance is legalized pimping, you pay me in case something happens and if it doesn't I keep the money anyway, and if something does happen I will charge more in case it happens again.

spwolf

judge will get to decide only if you sue the insurance company.

Now if you go 60 in 55mpg zone and crash, they will be able to say - see, you didnt follow the law, no insurance for you.