2012 Hyundai Genesis priced from $34,200; new 5.0 R-Spec to start at $46,500
06-06-11, 11:30 AM
#77
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genesis isn't taking away sales from the gs as the gs has hardly any sales to begin with. 
those saying the genesis sells poorly make me laugh. over 2000 a month with most likely very few being coupes (coupes don't sell well for any brand), while the gs is down around 500 a month (300 last month prob due to tsunami and supply issues).
genesis sales may not be what hyundai hoped but it certainly isn't bad especially in this economy.
haters just want to hate...
those saying the genesis sells poorly make me laugh. over 2000 a month with most likely very few being coupes (coupes don't sell well for any brand), while the gs is down around 500 a month (300 last month prob due to tsunami and supply issues).
genesis sales may not be what hyundai hoped but it certainly isn't bad especially in this economy.
haters just want to hate...
06-06-11, 11:45 AM
#78
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genesis isn't taking away sales from the gs as the gs has hardly any sales to begin with.
those saying the genesis sells poorly make me laugh. over 2000 a month with most likely very few being coupes (coupes don't sell well for any brand), while the gs is down around 500 a month (300 last month prob due to tsunami and supply issues).
genesis sales may not be what hyundai hoped but it certainly isn't bad especially in this economy.
haters just want to hate...
those saying the genesis sells poorly make me laugh. over 2000 a month with most likely very few being coupes (coupes don't sell well for any brand), while the gs is down around 500 a month (300 last month prob due to tsunami and supply issues).
genesis sales may not be what hyundai hoped but it certainly isn't bad especially in this economy.
haters just want to hate...
.Sorry but "most likely very few being coupes" is not a fact. We can only guess how many coupes and sedans are sold. We just don't know for a fact. This has been discussed before here on CL, regarding Genesis sales.
The economy is at a decent state right now. This is not 2008 or 2009 anymore. What's more telling is that Genesis sales have not really improved much even with all the troubles Toyota has had, and the huge disaster that all the Japanese automakers are still recovering from.
The Genesis (coupe and sedan combined) is selling about the same as the (old and dated) Buick Lucerne, Lincoln MKZ, and Volvo S60. Furthemore, GM sales for the DTS are down quite a bit, as are sales for the Lincoln Town Car. The Genesis is very likely cannibalizing sales from these near-luxury brands. It is clear the Genesis is not noticeably affecting sales of actual luxury cars.
06-06-11, 12:16 PM
#79
I posted up that Ward's Auto article simply to show that the Genesis had an engine NVH issue. For such a highly praised car, that we haven't even seen thoroughly tested yet, an engine NVH issue is not promising, especially as a few cars had been delivered already.
The Genesis is selling poorly I agree, given it's value, price, features, etc. Also keep in mind Genesis sales of the sedan and coupe remain combined. Hyundai refuses to separate sales.
Genesis is not taking sales from the Germans, or from the GS. It seems to have taken some sales away from other near-luxury brands, and possibly the Infiniti M.
I agree as well. Certain members here though did make such a comparison, a comparison which is pointless IMO.
The Genesis is selling poorly I agree, given it's value, price, features, etc. Also keep in mind Genesis sales of the sedan and coupe remain combined. Hyundai refuses to separate sales.
Genesis is not taking sales from the Germans, or from the GS. It seems to have taken some sales away from other near-luxury brands, and possibly the Infiniti M.
I agree as well. Certain members here though did make such a comparison, a comparison which is pointless IMO.
no free beer anywhere.
06-06-11, 12:19 PM
#80
genesis isn't taking away sales from the gs as the gs has hardly any sales to begin with.
those saying the genesis sells poorly make me laugh. over 2000 a month with most likely very few being coupes (coupes don't sell well for any brand), while the gs is down around 500 a month (300 last month prob due to tsunami and supply issues).
genesis sales may not be what hyundai hoped but it certainly isn't bad especially in this economy.
haters just want to hate...
those saying the genesis sells poorly make me laugh. over 2000 a month with most likely very few being coupes (coupes don't sell well for any brand), while the gs is down around 500 a month (300 last month prob due to tsunami and supply issues).
genesis sales may not be what hyundai hoped but it certainly isn't bad especially in this economy.
haters just want to hate...
06-06-11, 12:29 PM
#81
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Like MP said, R-spec isn't sold GS F isn't here. Why even compare?
The Genesis price is what 32k-46k. It literally ENDS where the GS STARTS. Apples to Oranges. You can lease a Genesis for $399 a month. Good luck finding that on a GS. You can buy a Genesis at Costco for under 30 grand. There is no denying the value of the vehicle.
The Lexus double standard prevails again. Its funny how people like bashing the GS for not selling well, they don't acknowledge when the 3GS did sell well, then they make excuses for the Genesis for not coming CLOSE to meeting sales goals.
Tell everyone this. The 3GS sold over 32,000 units in 2006 in a vehicle costing 45k-65k. When the Genesis sells that amount at that price, then we can discuss what its done.
Until then its a great effort by Hyundai, no one should beat it up at all, but not some world beater or new standard. Its hilarious to see people compliment the knock-off and not give the GS any credit. Seriously?
The Genesis price is what 32k-46k. It literally ENDS where the GS STARTS. Apples to Oranges. You can lease a Genesis for $399 a month. Good luck finding that on a GS. You can buy a Genesis at Costco for under 30 grand. There is no denying the value of the vehicle.
The Lexus double standard prevails again. Its funny how people like bashing the GS for not selling well, they don't acknowledge when the 3GS did sell well, then they make excuses for the Genesis for not coming CLOSE to meeting sales goals.
Tell everyone this. The 3GS sold over 32,000 units in 2006 in a vehicle costing 45k-65k. When the Genesis sells that amount at that price, then we can discuss what its done.
Until then its a great effort by Hyundai, no one should beat it up at all, but not some world beater or new standard. Its hilarious to see people compliment the knock-off and not give the GS any credit. Seriously?
06-06-11, 12:29 PM
#82
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You get what you pay for. You simply can't expect better-than-Toyota quality and reliability at lower-than-Toyota prices. No free beer indeed.
06-06-11, 12:33 PM
#83
Lexus Test Driver
In this case you get what you pay for. Honda \ Toyota have become the true value and quality play, we already know what that price point is. If there is a car being built for 4-5-6-7k less, it costs less for a reason.......
06-06-11, 12:42 PM
#85
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As for quality of mechanical components and overall reliability, numerous quality/reliability surveys, mechanics, and Toyota warranty rates say otherwise.
No, that "dog" has not "died". It's a gross over-exaggeration to say that.
06-06-11, 12:45 PM
#86
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.Exactly. There is always a reason it costs less, and specifically in Hyundai's case, the weak Korean won is not that reason.
06-06-11, 12:53 PM
#87
Interior quality, maybe. That is changing for the better with upcoming products.
As for quality of mechanical components and overall reliability, numerous quality/reliability surveys, mechanics, and Toyota warranty rates say otherwise.
No, that "dog" has not "died". It's a gross over-exaggeration to say that.
As for quality of mechanical components and overall reliability, numerous quality/reliability surveys, mechanics, and Toyota warranty rates say otherwise.
No, that "dog" has not "died". It's a gross over-exaggeration to say that.
I have a '11 Camry hybrid and the gaps are awful.I should have looked at the car more closely when I bought it but hey,it's a Toyota.
No more.I'll examine one closely now.
It may get better but when you have CEO Akio Toyoda saying quality has dropped,quality has dropped.
He laid out many reasons why.
Computer simulation vs on road testing.
Lack of engineers
Quest to be #1 pumping out of vehicles quickly etc.
I like the guy because he was honest and says he will bring back quality and I think he will.It's going to be tough with all the cost cutting but we'll see.
Maybe the dogs isn't dead but he's on life support with no DNR.
.The competition is getting fierce.Toyota better get it's act together.
Last edited by Joeb427; 06-06-11 at 12:56 PM.
06-06-11, 12:59 PM
#88
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I've been a Toyota buyer for many years.Quality isn't any where near what it was.Toyota and Lexus.
It may get better but when you have CEO Akio Toyoda saying quality has dropped,quality has dropped.
He laid out many reasons why.
Computer simulation vs on road testing.
Lack of engineers
Quest to be #1 pumping out of vehicles quickly etc.
I like the guy because he was honest and says he will bring back quality and I think he will.It's going to be tough with all the cost cutting but we'll see.
Maybe the dogs isn't dead but he's on life support with no DNR..
The competition is getting fierce.Toyota better get it's act together.
It may get better but when you have CEO Akio Toyoda saying quality has dropped,quality has dropped.
He laid out many reasons why.
Computer simulation vs on road testing.
Lack of engineers
Quest to be #1 pumping out of vehicles quickly etc.
I like the guy because he was honest and says he will bring back quality and I think he will.It's going to be tough with all the cost cutting but we'll see.
Maybe the dogs isn't dead but he's on life support with no DNR.
.The competition is getting fierce.Toyota better get it's act together.
You just answered your own question pretty much. Toyota knows the mistakes it made, and they are already correcting them. Cost cutting is no longer a top priority at Toyota, quality is, as well as fun to drive vehicles and more interesting design.
We can already see an example of this in the upcoming Prius V, which uses a lot more soft-touch materials in the interior than the regular Prius does.
The competition is getting fierce ... well we've been hearing that for years now and Toyota's old and dated models have mostly maintained their solid sales. Toyota will be getting fiercer. I said it before and I'll say it again; the competition needs to watch its back and to be worried with the upcoming product onslaught from Toyota.
06-06-11, 01:26 PM
#89
Yes, there was a drop, but not a significant one IMO. Slight difference as well between quality and reliability.
You just answered your own question pretty much. Toyota knows the mistakes it made, and they are already correcting them. Cost cutting is no longer a top priority at Toyota, quality is, as well as fun to drive vehicles and more interesting design.
We can already see an example of this in the upcoming Prius V, which uses a lot more soft-touch materials in the interior than the regular Prius does.
The competition is getting fierce ... well we've been hearing that for years now and Toyota's old and dated models have mostly maintained their solid sales. Toyota will be getting fiercer. I said it before and I'll say it again; the competition needs to watch its back and to be worried with the upcoming product onslaught from Toyota.
You just answered your own question pretty much. Toyota knows the mistakes it made, and they are already correcting them. Cost cutting is no longer a top priority at Toyota, quality is, as well as fun to drive vehicles and more interesting design.
We can already see an example of this in the upcoming Prius V, which uses a lot more soft-touch materials in the interior than the regular Prius does.
The competition is getting fierce ... well we've been hearing that for years now and Toyota's old and dated models have mostly maintained their solid sales. Toyota will be getting fiercer. I said it before and I'll say it again; the competition needs to watch its back and to be worried with the upcoming product onslaught from Toyota.
Sept it will hit the showrooms.
May even buy another loaded hybrid after it's out a year or so to get the bugs out.
I'm expecting the '12 Camry to be very nice.I've seen the front and angle side view pic and it looked very nice.Can't wait to see the rest of the exterior and interior.
The Camry is the bread and butter for Toyota.I think we'll see a big change with more luxurious interior in top leather trim.
I've read the hybrid MPGs and power will be up too..
06-06-11, 06:08 PM
#90
Lexus Champion
Really? Can you say this with certainty? Not just talking about performance, but everything overall. Quality, reliability, refinement, user experience, ergonomics, features, options, resale value etc. I bet "dollar for dollar" a GS F WOULD match a Genesis R-Spec.
For the most part, you get what you pay for.
For the most part, you get what you pay for.
The Genesis is far closer to the GS than it ever will be to the Germans.
Why is this puzzling?
The GS is one of the weakest points in the Lexus lineup (outside of the hybrid) as it is badly out of date and desperately needing the upcoming redesign.
Sad that you would think that everyone should fawn over all things Lexus on a Lexus forum.