Civic Hybrid tests Honda's new strategy
06-07-11, 07:07 AM
#1
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Civic Hybrid tests Honda's new strategy
We shall see how it works.
TOKYO -- Despite being the first to sell an electric-gasoline car in the United States and making hybrid technology a centerpiece of its fuel economy push, Honda Motor Co. has yet to have a hybrid hit.
But the redesigned Civic Hybrid, launched April 20, is the first test of whether Honda's new strategy of tapping lithium ion batteries and, later, two-motor systems can break the streak.
Past Honda hybrids have fallen short on fuel economy, as the Insight did against the Toyota Prius, or on power, as the short-lived Honda Accord hybrid fared against nonhybrid rivals. Honda's new hybrid plan aims to fix both problems.
The first improvement is using lithium ion batteries, made by Blue Energy Co., a joint venture between Honda and GS Yuasa Corp. The goal is to save weight and space, while increasing fuel economy. But the new batteries are costly.
Higher mpg, sticker
The new Civic's lithium battery weighs 48.5 pounds, compared with 69 pounds for its predecessor's nickel-metal hydride battery. That helps the new Civic Hybrid get 44 mpg in both city and highway driving , edging the previous generation's EPA rating of 40 city/43 highway.
The updated hybrid also gets a lighter, more powerful electric motor, with output increased to 17 kilowatts, from 15 kilowatts. It also offers more cabin space.
Its sticker starts at $24,800, including shipping, just $100 more than the earlier version's base price. But the Civic's sticker tops the Prius' base price of $22,880, including shipping.
So far sales have been sluggish. That is due in part to limited availability of the Japan-made hybrid because of earthquake-induced supply chain disruptions. Through May, Honda sold only 389 new Civic Hybrids in the United States, less than 1 percent of all Civics sold in that period. In 2010, hybrids accounted for 3 percent of the 260,218 Civics sold.
But slashing costs eventually will be key to driving sales higher.
"Toyota has already reduced the cost of its hybrid system over several years," says Toru Hatano, a powertrain analyst at IHS Global Insight in Tokyo. "But Honda is launching a whole new system, so we can expect their costs to be higher in the near term."
Two-motor hybrid
Honda also will install lithium ion batteries in a new two-motor hybrid system debuting next year in the United States for mid-sized plug-in hybrids.
Honda hasn't said what car gets it first. But engineers are testing the system in an Accord. A suitcase-sized lithium ion battery pack sits behind the back seat, eating trunk space.
An engineer involved with the project said testing is expected to continue through year end, and the company must decide if the 15-mile range in electric-only mode is sufficient. If user feedback suggests more range is needed, Honda will have to make the battery bigger or cut the car's weight, he said.
"We think a 15 mile range satisfies about 70 percent of the users," he said.
Already, Honda has tweaked the plug-in version of the Accord with an aluminum hood and other weight shavings. But the plug-in still weighs 330 pounds more than its gasoline counterpart.
Honda is rolling out the new hybrid system to counter criticism that its current technology is too weak to provide extended electric-only travel. The Integrated Motor Assist system used in the Insight, Civic and CR-Z hybrids uses the electric motor mostly to assist the gasoline engine.
The new system uses one traction motor to move the car and one generator motor to recharge the battery. The former, a 120-kilowatt motor, is combined with a 2.0-liter, four cylinder engine and continuously variable transmission.
The car has a top speed of 62 mph in electric-only mode, but a big question will be how far it can travel at that speed. The Accord plug-in hybrid can recharge in four hours from a 100-volt source or in 1.5 hours from a 200-volt source, the engineer said.
Honda President Takanobu Ito said last fall that the new hybrid system for larger vehicles will give electric-gasoline drivetrains a bigger slice of Honda's global sales -- pushing hybrids to around 10 percent of global sales by 2015, from less than 5 percent in 2009.
The electrified powertrains also will feature prominently in the Acura lineup, Ito said, reinforcing what he calls the "smart premium" image to which the brand aspires
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...#ixzz1ObCWd25H
But the redesigned Civic Hybrid, launched April 20, is the first test of whether Honda's new strategy of tapping lithium ion batteries and, later, two-motor systems can break the streak.
Past Honda hybrids have fallen short on fuel economy, as the Insight did against the Toyota Prius, or on power, as the short-lived Honda Accord hybrid fared against nonhybrid rivals. Honda's new hybrid plan aims to fix both problems.
The first improvement is using lithium ion batteries, made by Blue Energy Co., a joint venture between Honda and GS Yuasa Corp. The goal is to save weight and space, while increasing fuel economy. But the new batteries are costly.
Higher mpg, sticker
The new Civic's lithium battery weighs 48.5 pounds, compared with 69 pounds for its predecessor's nickel-metal hydride battery. That helps the new Civic Hybrid get 44 mpg in both city and highway driving , edging the previous generation's EPA rating of 40 city/43 highway.
The updated hybrid also gets a lighter, more powerful electric motor, with output increased to 17 kilowatts, from 15 kilowatts. It also offers more cabin space.
Its sticker starts at $24,800, including shipping, just $100 more than the earlier version's base price. But the Civic's sticker tops the Prius' base price of $22,880, including shipping.
So far sales have been sluggish. That is due in part to limited availability of the Japan-made hybrid because of earthquake-induced supply chain disruptions. Through May, Honda sold only 389 new Civic Hybrids in the United States, less than 1 percent of all Civics sold in that period. In 2010, hybrids accounted for 3 percent of the 260,218 Civics sold.
But slashing costs eventually will be key to driving sales higher.
"Toyota has already reduced the cost of its hybrid system over several years," says Toru Hatano, a powertrain analyst at IHS Global Insight in Tokyo. "But Honda is launching a whole new system, so we can expect their costs to be higher in the near term."
Two-motor hybrid
Honda also will install lithium ion batteries in a new two-motor hybrid system debuting next year in the United States for mid-sized plug-in hybrids.
Honda hasn't said what car gets it first. But engineers are testing the system in an Accord. A suitcase-sized lithium ion battery pack sits behind the back seat, eating trunk space.
An engineer involved with the project said testing is expected to continue through year end, and the company must decide if the 15-mile range in electric-only mode is sufficient. If user feedback suggests more range is needed, Honda will have to make the battery bigger or cut the car's weight, he said.
"We think a 15 mile range satisfies about 70 percent of the users," he said.
Already, Honda has tweaked the plug-in version of the Accord with an aluminum hood and other weight shavings. But the plug-in still weighs 330 pounds more than its gasoline counterpart.
Honda is rolling out the new hybrid system to counter criticism that its current technology is too weak to provide extended electric-only travel. The Integrated Motor Assist system used in the Insight, Civic and CR-Z hybrids uses the electric motor mostly to assist the gasoline engine.
The new system uses one traction motor to move the car and one generator motor to recharge the battery. The former, a 120-kilowatt motor, is combined with a 2.0-liter, four cylinder engine and continuously variable transmission.
The car has a top speed of 62 mph in electric-only mode, but a big question will be how far it can travel at that speed. The Accord plug-in hybrid can recharge in four hours from a 100-volt source or in 1.5 hours from a 200-volt source, the engineer said.
Honda President Takanobu Ito said last fall that the new hybrid system for larger vehicles will give electric-gasoline drivetrains a bigger slice of Honda's global sales -- pushing hybrids to around 10 percent of global sales by 2015, from less than 5 percent in 2009.
The electrified powertrains also will feature prominently in the Acura lineup, Ito said, reinforcing what he calls the "smart premium" image to which the brand aspires
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...#ixzz1ObCWd25H
06-07-11, 08:45 AM
#3
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I am not impressed by the new Civic hybrid. It costs more, yet offers less than a Prius....what is Honda not understanding here?
A plug in Accord hybrid could be nice. A 15 mile electric range would be great for me.
A plug in Accord hybrid could be nice. A 15 mile electric range would be great for me.
06-07-11, 08:46 AM
#4
Lexus Fanatic
I've never particularly liked the Prius, especially the 3Gen model with its thinner, more flimsy-feeling materials, despite the fact that its drivetrain is significantly more efficient and refined than that of both the Civic Hybrid and Insight. Given the choice between the Civic Hybrid and the somewhat higher-MPG Prius, I'd take the Civic in a heartbeat.
06-07-11, 09:32 AM
#5
I've never particularly liked the Prius, especially the 3Gen model with its thinner, more flimsy-feeling materials, despite the fact that its drivetrain is significantly more efficient and refined than that of both the Civic Hybrid and Insight. Given the choice between the Civic Hybrid and the somewhat higher-MPG Prius, I'd take the Civic in a heartbeat.
Almost nobody agrees with you as can be seen by sales :-).
06-07-11, 09:34 AM
#7
Civic has one large problem - it is still mild hybrid. And results show it.
When they talk about "2 motor hybrids" - those are full hybrids and Honda is obviously working on them. Great!
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06-07-11, 10:22 AM
#8
Lexus Fanatic
I agree that my view is in the minority.....I never implied otherwise. The Prius, without doubt, has benefited enormously from glamorization in the media, from environmentalists, and from celebrities/entertainers. Like the Honda Hybrids, it has also been reliable, according to Consumer Reports. As good as the Civic Hybrid is (and it's an excellent car), it has never been able to compete on equal terms with the huge Prius image/publicity machine.
But I don't always follow the crowd, especially when it comes to evaluating a car.....I look and think for myself. And, most of the time, I'm not sorry that I do.
Last, I never said (or implied) that the Civic Hybrid was better than the Prius in every way....it's not. Toyota Hybrid-Drive systems are clearly superior, in several ways, than the Honda IMA (Integrated Motor Assist). But more is involved in judging a car, IMO, than its power-train alone.
But I don't always follow the crowd, especially when it comes to evaluating a car.....I look and think for myself. And, most of the time, I'm not sorry that I do.
Last, I never said (or implied) that the Civic Hybrid was better than the Prius in every way....it's not. Toyota Hybrid-Drive systems are clearly superior, in several ways, than the Honda IMA (Integrated Motor Assist). But more is involved in judging a car, IMO, than its power-train alone.
Last edited by mmarshall; 06-07-11 at 10:26 AM.
06-07-11, 09:55 PM
#11
Lexus Fanatic
Not surprising. In fact, a lot of pizza guys themselves drive Civics, especially in my area (Washington D.C. suburbs), because they are reliable and inexpensive to buy and operate. You can't have your car breaking down on a run.......customers don't like cold pizza. 
Though a sedan instead of a hatchback, the new Civic's front-end actually looks more like that of its little-brother Insight than it does to an "older" Civic.
It is amazing how they've managed to make a new car look older than its previous model.
06-08-11, 01:49 AM
#12
I agree that my view is in the minority.....I never implied otherwise. The Prius, without doubt, has benefited enormously from glamorization in the media, from environmentalists, and from celebrities/entertainers. Like the Honda Hybrids, it has also been reliable, according to Consumer Reports. As good as the Civic Hybrid is (and it's an excellent car), it has never been able to compete on equal terms with the huge Prius image/publicity machine.
But I don't always follow the crowd, especially when it comes to evaluating a car.....I look and think for myself. And, most of the time, I'm not sorry that I do.
Last, I never said (or implied) that the Civic Hybrid was better than the Prius in every way....it's not. Toyota Hybrid-Drive systems are clearly superior, in several ways, than the Honda IMA (Integrated Motor Assist). But more is involved in judging a car, IMO, than its power-train alone.
But I don't always follow the crowd, especially when it comes to evaluating a car.....I look and think for myself. And, most of the time, I'm not sorry that I do.
Last, I never said (or implied) that the Civic Hybrid was better than the Prius in every way....it's not. Toyota Hybrid-Drive systems are clearly superior, in several ways, than the Honda IMA (Integrated Motor Assist). But more is involved in judging a car, IMO, than its power-train alone.
- One size larger
- gets 6 MPG more (now, was bigger diff before)
- Full hybrid with stronger electric motor
- Insanely reliable
Honda Hybrids have had their share of issues with batteries, they rarely reach more than 100,000-150,000 miles before having to get replacement, unlike Prius which can last a lot more.
So there are a lot of objective reasons that Prius sells better.
06-08-11, 01:56 AM
#13
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but it really has nothing to do with media publicity:
- One size larger
- gets 6 MPG more (now, was bigger diff before)
- Full hybrid with stronger electric motor
- Insanely reliable
Honda Hybrids have had their share of issues with batteries, they rarely reach more than 100,000-150,000 miles before having to get replacement, unlike Prius which can last a lot more.
So there are a lot of objective reasons that Prius sells better.
- One size larger
- gets 6 MPG more (now, was bigger diff before)
- Full hybrid with stronger electric motor
- Insanely reliable
Honda Hybrids have had their share of issues with batteries, they rarely reach more than 100,000-150,000 miles before having to get replacement, unlike Prius which can last a lot more.
So there are a lot of objective reasons that Prius sells better.
07-12-11, 09:43 PM
#14
Amazing how the Accord PHV is similar to the Prius PHV demo units
15 mile range vs. 13 mile in the Prius
330lbs heavier vs. 300lbs in the Prius
4 hours on 100V vs. 3 hours in 110/120V (the 240V times are the same at 1.5hr)
Also I find it interesting that the aluminium hood is on the Accord PHV. I thought it would be standard on all Accords (esp. since the Camry has an aluminium hood, does it not? I thought it did on our Gen 5 Camry).
15 mile range vs. 13 mile in the Prius
330lbs heavier vs. 300lbs in the Prius
4 hours on 100V vs. 3 hours in 110/120V (the 240V times are the same at 1.5hr)
Also I find it interesting that the aluminium hood is on the Accord PHV. I thought it would be standard on all Accords (esp. since the Camry has an aluminium hood, does it not? I thought it did on our Gen 5 Camry).
07-13-11, 05:29 AM
#15
Racer
but it really has nothing to do with media publicity:
- One size larger
- gets 6 MPG more (now, was bigger diff before)
- Full hybrid with stronger electric motor
- Insanely reliable
Honda Hybrids have had their share of issues with batteries, they rarely reach more than 100,000-150,000 miles before having to get replacement, unlike Prius which can last a lot more.
So there are a lot of objective reasons that Prius sells better.
- One size larger
- gets 6 MPG more (now, was bigger diff before)
- Full hybrid with stronger electric motor
- Insanely reliable
Honda Hybrids have had their share of issues with batteries, they rarely reach more than 100,000-150,000 miles before having to get replacement, unlike Prius which can last a lot more.
So there are a lot of objective reasons that Prius sells better.
Last edited by rogers2; 07-13-11 at 05:54 AM.