*Batman*

No it looks like a Fusion mated with the boxy Camry from 3 gens prior.

TRDFantasy

What exactly are you trying to argue? I don't get it.

Yes some people like Hyundai's designs, and there are enough people that hate Hyundai's designs. That was my point. Opinions are opinions. I never stated opinions as facts. It is a fact however that a lot of people have opinions, and it is also a FACT that design is completely subjective. Just because someone on a forum likes a design does not mean it's a great design to everyone.

History has also shown that radical styling is a bad idea in the family sedan segment.

speedflex

The problem with this position is that there is no perceived middle ground. It's as if anything more stylish than what the Camry shows is "radical" and "over-styled". Camry's are bland. Bland to look at, bland to sit in, and bland to drive. Bland. Am I saying that there's no market for this? Obviously not and that's not the issue at hand. Americans seem to love bland in this segment. It's not hard at all to be more stylish than a Camry. But when people go on about how a family sedan having any dramatic presence whatsoever makes it over-styled and radical and therefore trendy I just bristle. Styling has to be a foremost reason that the new Sonata is now one of the hottest cars in the segment.

This new Camry is safe... almost cowardly. It almost makes me angry that Toyota is this pandering to a middle of the road taste. But hey, they'll sell gazillions to those who want something with no personality. Thank goodness for a few other car makers who understand that there are many of us who want more.

lamar411

Im not sad to say I am a typical Camry owner. I liked my 2004 Camry because it wasn't ugly, got good mileage, and hauled my family of 4 comfortably, it also was a great DD, spent almost 2and a half hours in it everyday. When I went to replace it with a new 2011, I found the same attributes. Not ugly, priced well, good mileage. Buyers like me in this segment don't care about the extras. If I was buying an.ISF I'd care but with all the people saying its bland no.s***. Who do you the target demographic is? People like us? No... so I have more stuff but my phone Is a PIA to type with....

*Batman*

I showed a picture of the new Camry to my dad who's 68 years old and has owned 3 Camrys in the past.

His response was: "What's wrong with Toyota? Are they completely unable to take risks?". Actually before he said that his first response was "Are you sure that's the new one?".

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

My point is that there are people who do not like Toyota's styling either but that doesn't make their styling bad...same goes with Hyundai cars. It's not bad just because you or some people think they're radical or 'gimmicky.' Hyundai has been selling a lot more now with their 'gimmick' design than when they made bland toasters. Seems like anything not Toyota is ugly, radical, wrong, gaudy and everything Toyota is aggressive, muscular, but elegant and Jesus-like. It may seem like bland sells but lets not forget up until recently, you only had 3-4 choices when it comes to midsize family sedans and they were all vanilla. You were pretty much forced to buy an Accord, Camry, or an Altima. Time has changed and who is to say you can't have flavors other than vanilla?

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

For the record, I don't think this Camry is bland. In fact I don't mind the looks of it because it's not a priority for when I need to buy a midsize family sedan. I find some parts ugly and other parts good looking. I much prefer the 6th gen front and rear end, but the side profile of the 7th gen looks better to me.

TRDFantasy

FYI: I have NO problem with the Altima, Fusion, Passat, and to a lesser extent the Accord and Optima in terms of their exterior styling. While I have differing levels of interest for each car, none of them have offensive styling IMHO.

The Sonata, to me, is the only car in the segment that has downright offensive styling. Nowhere did I say having styling more aggressive than the Camry is automatically considered "radical". You jumped to assumptions and conclusions.

Just to state the obvious, we're talking about the family sedan segment here. Not the sport sedan segment, or the compact sedan segment, or any other segment. Most family sedan segment buyers want inoffensive styling. It gets very annoying when car forum people repeat over and over that many buyers "don't care" about styling. It's not necessarily that they don't care, it's more that they care about NOT having a vehicle with offensive or in-your-face styling.

You want "dramatic presence" in a family sedan? That's honestly an answer to a question almost nobody asked. Why would anyone looking at a family sedan want dramatic presence? You're looking in the wrong segment. Those that want a sedan with dramatic presence should look elsewhere than the family sedan segment. Speaking of which, there was a recent statistic about Sonata buyers. A large percentage of Sonata buyers happen to be younger, single males. That is NOT the traditional family sedan demographic. That also means Sonata sales very likely won't last, as the young single male demographic is very fickle. Frankly, that should be a worrying statistic for Hyundai, as when another "trendy" product comes along, many of these young single males will abandon the Sonata. Sales cannibalization could also occur with the coming Azera or Kia products like the Optima.

Yes, styling is one reason why the Sonata has achieved sales increases. There are many other reasons and circumstances as well though. The Sonata's high EPA ratings, combined with the high perceived value of the Sonata plays a factor. Furthermore, the Sonata is a new design while most of the major competition are aged designs. Very soon much of the major competition will be redesigned. From now over the next 2 years, we'll see a new Camry, Accord, Altima and Fusion. Over the next few years, most of the competition will be heavily redesigning their lineups. The market and industry will change. We'll see how popular Hyundai is in 2-3 years when it faces brand new redesigns from all of the competition. I also don't need to mention the effect of the US government witch hunt against Toyota last year which temporarily affected Camry sales/perception, combined with the extraordinary disaster in Japan earlier this year which greatly affected inventory for all major Japanese makers.

You want dramatic presence, wait for the FR-S, or consider another sports car.

It amazes me how many enthusiasts don't understand the car industry and different segments. No, not EVERY segment needs or should have vehicles with "dramatic" presence.

Besides, you're already making a ton of assumptions about the new Camry without knowing anything about it. Also FYI, the current 2011 Camry SE is NOT "bland" to drive. If you drive one, you'll find out. Of course, it's the popular thing on car forums these days to bash any and all Toyotas, regardless of whether some of them are fun or great-driving vehicles.

More assumptions and jumping to conclusions. Nowhere did I say that. Read above reply for further clarification.

Wow, so now the Altima is considered "bland"? Now I've heard everything .

I would take a Fusion, Passat, Accord, Altima, even a Malibu or Optima and yes a Camry ... before I would ever choose a Sonata. To assume I only like Toyota styling or design is just making yourself look silly.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Every car that gets compared to the Camry, you seem to find something to dislike about the competitor while praising the Camry. You don't have to say it directly for anyone to notice. And yes, the Altima WAS bland. Reread what I said, especially the part where I said there use to be only 3-4 cars to choose from...you know..the times before the current Sonata, Fusion, Malibu, etc came out. A 2002 Nissan Altima is far from aggressive. It's okay to hate Hyundai, but it doesn't make their styling wrong if there is a market for it (a good one at that).

I'm done talking about Hyundai in this thread. PM me if you like. I'm going to wait for more info on the Camry interior since it matters to me more than what the outside of the car looks like.

TRDFantasy

Agree to disagree. I quite like the Fusion exterior, and I've said that before. I also find the Altima exterior to be decent, and the Passat to be somewhat bland but elegant. Optima has fairly nice exterior, and the Accord has a decent exterior. I actually like the current Malibu exterior save for the rear end.

We'll be getting Camry interior info and pics on the 23rd, unless something leaks beforehand which I doubt at this point.

LexFather

The 6 year old+ Camry just sold more than everyone last month in its class. Toyota is a business, they are not in it to win beauty contests and to please those people on the internet that won't buy a Toyota anyway.

Why on EARTH would they stray to far from a formula that has been utterly successful for them since 1992? Why? Let's say the Camry gets some amazing styling, who is to say people stop buying the Camry then jump to something more bland? It is PROVEN people like the Camry styling. It might not be a selling point for YOU but to BUYERS the styling is fine. The Camry has been #1 in sales most years for a decade now. Don't give me the "sales don't matter/McDonalds" argument b/c the Camry is a damn good car.

Again the Camry continues to get more interesting to look at so not sure what people want exactly.

There is a reason Toyota is #1/#2 as an autobrand, they are among the smartest in the industry. IMO here is a CORE problem with the other 2 Japanese brands in comparsion

1. No Toyota comes close to looking better than a Lexus. That would be just damn foolish.
2. The Nissan Maxima IMO looks better than any Infiniti. It is gorgous. It looks like an INfiniti inside as well.
3. The Accord USDM looks better than any Acura, especially the coupe. Its not even close the Coupe is a beauty.

Toyota is not dumb, why would they style Toyota's to look on par or better than a Lexus? That defies logic. The other two are defying logic and suffer for it.

I'm going to go out of a limb and say the new Camry is going to slap the competition back to reality.

-J-P-L-

^^ Good points

Also, enthusiasts on the internet may forget that a majority of real world car buyers DON'T want to stand out with their cars. Yes, it's true!

Those that want to stand out buy sports cars or modify their cars. How many people overall do that? Not many really. Notice most cars are kept completely stock. Just look around. Yet, those on internet car forums modify their cars in much higher percentages. Even if we're are just talking aftermarket wheels, most people don't buy them outside of big car enthusiasts like ourselves.

C. McHale

If you want proof that the market in the family car segment loves bland, just look at sales of the new Jetta. It's been torn apart in reviews for its ho-hum styling and interior decontenting. The non-enthusiast public doesn't seem to mind.

The relatively cheap price, safe, boring exterior styling, and increased interior size are all that seem to matter. I personally would never buy one of these new Jettas. I doubt anyone on this forum would either.

But its sales have skyrocketed. If anything, this proves enthusiasts know nothing about what the general public prefers in cars.

Toyota? They seem to have the formula down pretty well.

speedflex

Noone is claiming to speak for the entire market. I know I didn't. I've said, in nearly every post I've made in this thread, that the car has been and will continue to be a huge success. But for the love of... why can't it be said that the Camry, almost more than any other car is as vanilla as they come. Not everyone wants that. Some people, (Yes, even those who need a family sedan) want something a little more stylish and emotive. I'm just shocked at how utterly unimaginative the new car is.

Just because someone needs something affordable and with 4 doors doesn't mean they have to be dead inside.

speedflex

P.S. The 2013 Avalon is said to be stunning. I guess that customer is fundamentally different from the Camry buyer. Mr. Toyoda said that more emotional cars were coming... but I guess he meant, except for the Camry.