J.P.

If I am spending 80k on anything I want "some" reliability, RR is at the BOTTOM of the list so that is a problem for me at that price range.

I looked at RR a few times wanting to pull the trigger then I think

"beast off road, until it breaks down and leaves you there"

spwolf

you dont get it, since you have 80k, you must have 160k too, so you buy two RR's, so when one brakes down, you have other one to drive.

LexFather

Guys can we talk about the LC and not turn it into another German vs pissing match?

I have to say for that kind of money, I am not getting a LC, I think LX is great but also the price is kind of high. The Nissan Petrol rebadge QX56 really is a bargain here though it is a rebadge with nowhere near the effort to separate the two like the LC/LX.

I love the G-wagon and Ranges and would likely risk reliability to drive one over the LC here.

MR_F1

Thank you VERY much for pointing that out.

Thanks for demonstrating my point.

Kool-Aid much yourself? Yo have got to be kidding me. Bling factor is the worth of an SUV? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


Yeah... sounds about right

[/sarcasm]

MR_F1

Actually, I think the LC is only on sale in the US still, because of it's legacy and "halo" image. To be honest, with the LX on sale, I do strongly believe that Toyota ought to forget about selling the LC in the US, Perhaps supplementing the LX with a 450d (Twin turbo diesel V8 as found in overseas LCs) variant at a lower price point and perhaps beefing up the already pretty damned decent off-road ability to LC users who may shy away from the Lexus version... though I don't even see this as an issue as I'm pretty damn sure most LC guys who off-road would kill for a diesel LX and care a damn about the badge. I agree that the folks over there who don't see the relevance just don't "get it", but if you do bring the LX into play, I think the LC in the US is fairly redundant.

Sorry for adding fuel to the fire in my last post. Back on topic, I do agree with you somewhat. In fact, I wish the GX was more RR Sport and less "Land cruiser light", and to be honest, I absolutely love the look of the RR and yes, would contemplate driving one on the looks alone (G-wagen too) reliability be damned. However, If I actually NEEDED the capabilities, the LC/LX would be top of the list, not even batting an eyelid. The LC does not sell in large numbers in the US, Toyota doesn't seem to mind.... they sell exponentially more in their overseas market and seem content to keep it in the US as an image model.

Perhaps they might reconsider with the increasing CAFE standards the idea of a diesel LX + withdrawing the LC from the US market (or making it special order only?)... If a vehicle is special order only is it included in the calculation of a manufacturers' CAFE?

TRDFantasy

Well said MR_F1, exactly. Toyota keeps the Land Cruiser in the US as mostly an image thing. Toyota probably doesn't care if people in the US criticize the price. Toyota sells huge numbers of Land Cruisers overseas.

spwolf

twin turbo diesel V8 is in Europe $7.5k more expensive than V8. I dont know how would you offer it for less money :-). It is also significantly slower than even 300hp V8 (forget what the numbers show, i have driven both extensively), let alone US version with 381hp... and obviously there is an noise and reliability not worthy of Lexus badge.

As to the CAFE - CAFE numbers are tied to the number of cars sold - it is average of number of units sold on the market. With LC selling in low numbers, it matters not at all to Toyota USA with regards to CAFE.

In reality, LC and LX are built for rougher parts of the road than USA or even Europe... Most drivers are sufficiently served by good old LC150 (4Runner).

In 2010, Toyota manufacturing staggering number of 340,000 Land Cruisers in Japan (both LC150 and LC200), despite them being premium options and poorer countries preferring much cheaper IMV project vehicles (Hilux, Fortuner, Innova) that are manufactured in Thailand, South Africa and other countries, or 4Runner/Tacoma in the NA.

Lets mention that LC150/LC200 outsold Jaguar Land Rover complete brand by 40% world wide in 2010.

RXGS

iTrader: (2)

No matter what the price, i always have and always will love the land cruiser, especially the 80 and 100 series, having an lx470, many people asked how we justified paying as much as we did for it when at the time a suburban navigator or the likes would have been the same for much cheaper, well you have to own one to truely justify the price, you can't just look at a spec sheet

MR_F1

Cheaper than the LX, not the LC. The idea behind it would be to fulfill the role that core LC buyers in the US crave. That's all. What's wrong with the reliability of the 4.5 V8 diesel? The noise IMHO is a good point, but fairly irrelevant, as I doubt they'd be looking to see it to ppl who aren't specifically looking for a diesel Land Cruiser.

STIG

Land Cruiser quite literally rules the world. There's nothing come close to the LC. One of these days, I am going to have a Land Cruiser.

spwolf

why would diesel engine be expensive than petrol in LC but cheaper in LX?

Generally diesels are always more expensive to produce due to all the technology, so there is no way they could make it cheaper... usually manufacturers have to subsidize the cost of diesel engines and still they end up being more expensive than petrol.

MR_F1

wow.... just. Forget it.

mmarshall

Well, techically, the Mecedes G-Wagen (Gelandewagen) may (?) be the ultimate off-roader for civilian-use, now that the Hummer H1 is gone. The G-Wagen is built like a tank. You have to see it, and slam the doors on it, to see just how much like a tank it is. It is arguably the most solidly-built vehicle for public-use I've seen yet. It is converted from a military vehicle used by the German and Austrian armies. But it does, however, cost more than a typical Land Cruiser.

LexFather

The LC is world reknown for being one of the toughest SOBs ever made. It is REVERED worldwide. It is THE ONLY vehicle to go to the North AND South poles. When you buy a LC, you pretty much buy an indestructible tank.

Oddly enough, it might not have style and lack panache against some other badges to most people but to off-roaders, the LC is one of the most respected vehicles.

spwolf

sorry, i was thinking you wanted it in LX... as to the diesels, generally new generation is not as reliable due to high pressure pumps, injectors, turbines, clutch, etc, not to mention these new cats.