GM, Chrysler, Toyota Warn That Higher-Ethanol Gas May Void Warranties
07-05-11, 04:52 PM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
GM, Chrysler, Toyota Warn That Higher-Ethanol Gas May Void Warranties
http://consumerist.com/2011/07/gm-ch...arranties.html
Even though gasoline containing upward of 15% ethanol content (E15) hasn't come on the consumer market, the government has already finalized the labels that will be affixed to pumps carrying the fuel, a sign of E15 will likely make it to your local gas station at some point. Now Bloomberg reports that nine automakers, including GM, Chrysler and Toyota have warned regulators that putting E15 in your tank may void your vehicle's warranty.
"While Chrysler has been a strong advocate of renewable fuels, we have concerns about the potential harmful effects of E15 in engines and fuel systems that were not designed for use of that fuel," Chrysler's senior vice president of external affairs, wrote in a letter to Winsconsin Congressman James Sensenbrenner, vice chairman of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology.
The E15 label released last week by the Environmental Protection Agency alerts consumers that the gas should only be used in vehicles with model year 2001 or later and that it may do damage — and is prohibited to use — in "other vehicles, boats and gas-powered equipment."
Following the label's release, the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, claimed that it doesn't provide sufficient information to consumers. A rep for the group told the NY Times that the label should tell drivers to check their owners' manuals when deciding which fuel would be best suited to use in their vehicles.
"While Chrysler has been a strong advocate of renewable fuels, we have concerns about the potential harmful effects of E15 in engines and fuel systems that were not designed for use of that fuel," Chrysler's senior vice president of external affairs, wrote in a letter to Winsconsin Congressman James Sensenbrenner, vice chairman of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology.
The E15 label released last week by the Environmental Protection Agency alerts consumers that the gas should only be used in vehicles with model year 2001 or later and that it may do damage — and is prohibited to use — in "other vehicles, boats and gas-powered equipment."
Following the label's release, the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, claimed that it doesn't provide sufficient information to consumers. A rep for the group told the NY Times that the label should tell drivers to check their owners' manuals when deciding which fuel would be best suited to use in their vehicles.
07-05-11, 05:24 PM
#5
Lexus Test Driver
Please make Ethanol go away already : )
Never dug into it much, but if I recall Ethanol in the mix = less MPG
The gov wants
Less emissions
More ethanol in the fuel
AND
higher MPG rated cars in a really short time span
Never dug into it much, but if I recall Ethanol in the mix = less MPG
The gov wants
Less emissions
More ethanol in the fuel
AND
higher MPG rated cars in a really short time span
07-05-11, 05:30 PM
#6
Dysfunctional Veteran
Trending Topics
07-05-11, 06:11 PM
#10
Lexus Test Driver
07-05-11, 06:22 PM
#11
Dysfunctional Veteran
Many people cant, or simply choose not too. My brother, for instance, has a 2007 Ford F-150. His wife drives around a 1989 Volvo Station Wagon. It has 320,000 miles on it, and its stone-solid reliable.
But it BARELY runs on E10. He tells me all the time how it runs so bad on that fuel. He has been struggling to find pure gasoline for it in the DFW area. So they run it on E10 most of the time. They never had any issues until E10 came along.
Now E15 is going to make it even worse. He has a new baby and may actually have to sell his truck to continue to make ends meet. I have been helping him where I can, but times are tough as of late. If he sells his truck, he does not own a vehicle that can safely run E15, and he will not be able to get a new one.
He is in the same boat as MILLIONS of Americans. Pay your mortgage or pay a car payment. Many people cant afford to make that choice.
But it BARELY runs on E10. He tells me all the time how it runs so bad on that fuel. He has been struggling to find pure gasoline for it in the DFW area. So they run it on E10 most of the time. They never had any issues until E10 came along.
Now E15 is going to make it even worse. He has a new baby and may actually have to sell his truck to continue to make ends meet. I have been helping him where I can, but times are tough as of late. If he sells his truck, he does not own a vehicle that can safely run E15, and he will not be able to get a new one.
He is in the same boat as MILLIONS of Americans. Pay your mortgage or pay a car payment. Many people cant afford to make that choice.
07-05-11, 06:41 PM
#12
Lexus Fanatic
Yes, I agree. I was being partly facetious, and there is some truth to what you say. But, on the other hand, many people keep Old Betsy in the garage long after she has seen her best years, simply to try and coax the last mile out of her. I've ridden around in some 200K+ clunkers that some of my friends have owned that I simply no longer felt safe in.
In what way does it run bad? Ethanol, true, can corrode gasoline-only fuel systems/hoses, and its fuel-mileage s**ks. But it also burns extremely clean, doesn't leave carbon/gum/varnish deposits like gas does, has a lower flash-point for catching fire, and has very high resistance to pinging/detonation. That's why a large part of the racing industry converted to it decades ago. So, the more of it you have in the gas, the cleaner the engine runs, the less the computer will have to retard the spark to keep from pinging, and the longer the spark plugs will last (unless the electrodes burn out). But the lower the fuel-mileage will be.....and, of course, the government keeps demanding higher and higher fuel-mileage as well.
I wish the best for him....and that things work out. I agree that the baby has to come first. 
My brother, for instance, has a 2007 Ford F-150. His wife drives around a 1989 Volvo Station Wagon. It has 320,000 miles on it, and its stone-solid reliable.
But it BARELY runs on E10. He tells me all the time how it runs so bad on that fuel. He has been struggling to find pure gasoline for it in the DFW area. So they run it on E10 most of the time. They never had any issues until E10 came along.
Now E15 is going to make it even worse.
But it BARELY runs on E10. He tells me all the time how it runs so bad on that fuel. He has been struggling to find pure gasoline for it in the DFW area. So they run it on E10 most of the time. They never had any issues until E10 came along.
Now E15 is going to make it even worse.
He has a new baby and may actually have to sell his truck to continue to make ends meet. I have been helping him where I can, but times are tough as of late. If he sells his truck, he does not own a vehicle that can safely run E15, and he will not be able to get a new one.
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-05-11 at 07:02 PM.
07-05-11, 06:52 PM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
Some airports with avgas for piston-engined airport may still have 100-Octane Low-Lead (with no ethanol). But I wouldn't recommend it, except maybe for some older cars that are out of warranty and in states that don't have emission tests, as the lead (even the low-lead small amounts) can foul up a catalytic converter. And a ruined catalyst can make a car difficult to resell or register in some areas.
07-05-11, 06:56 PM
#14
Dysfunctional Veteran
Yes, I agree. I was being partly facetious, and there is some truth to what you say. But, on the other hand, many people keep Old Betsy in the garage long after she has seen her best years, simply to try and coax the last mile out of her. I've ridden around in some 200K+ clunkers that some of my friends have owned that I simply no longer felt safe in.
In what way does it run bad? Ethanol, true, can corrode gasoline-only fuel systems/hoses, and its fuel-mileage s**ks. But it also burns extremely clean, doesn't leave carbon/gum/varnish deposits like gas does, has a lower flash-point for catching fire, and has very high resistance to pinging/detonation. That's why a large part of the racing industry converted to it decades ago. So, the more of it you have in the gas, the cleaner the engine runs, the less the computer will have to retard the spark to keep from pinging, and the longer the spark plugs will last (unless the electrodes burn out). But the lower the fuel-mileage will be.....and, of course, the government keeps demanding higher and higher fuel-mileage as well.
I wish the best for him....and that things work out. I agree that the baby has to come first.
In what way does it run bad? Ethanol, true, can corrode gasoline-only fuel systems/hoses, and its fuel-mileage s**ks. But it also burns extremely clean, doesn't leave carbon/gum/varnish deposits like gas does, has a lower flash-point for catching fire, and has very high resistance to pinging/detonation. That's why a large part of the racing industry converted to it decades ago. So, the more of it you have in the gas, the cleaner the engine runs, the less the computer will have to retard the spark to keep from pinging, and the longer the spark plugs will last (unless the electrodes burn out). But the lower the fuel-mileage will be.....and, of course, the government keeps demanding higher and higher fuel-mileage as well.
I wish the best for him....and that things work out. I agree that the baby has to come first.
I may have him Seafoam it, and see if that helps, but the bottom line is, the cars that arent designed to run on it, their owners are screwed.
07-05-11, 07:02 PM
#15
Lexus Fanatic
A somewhat similiar situation existed back in 1994, when the auto industry, under an international flouride-agreement, converted from R-12 A/C refrigerant to R-134, and R-12 was phased out of production. R-12 became difficult and expensive to find, as its supplies gradually dried up. Retro-fit kits for older cars to R-134 were available for some vehicles, but not for all (R-134 could not be used in R-12 systems). So, as a result, if the A/C failed and could not be recharged, many people, instead of riding around in an oven on wheels, simply ended up going out and getting new (or newer) vehicles.