Lexus it is time! Can we please get a car that man, woman and child all lust after?
08-16-11, 09:30 AM
#61
All I was asking for is Lexus to create one for its devout followers and casual passerby to lust for.
However that's not changing the fact that there isn't a current car coupe or SEDAN( as I've specified) that gives most of us that rush. Closest being is the IS-F and many here and elsewhere don't view it in the same realm as the CLS, A7, Panamera and for good reason. Different type of car.
However that's not changing the fact that there isn't a current car coupe or SEDAN( as I've specified) that gives most of us that rush. Closest being is the IS-F and many here and elsewhere don't view it in the same realm as the CLS, A7, Panamera and for good reason. Different type of car.
Since you're the OP, why don't you start with body style (sedan in your case), hp, price...and what will make it lustful?
This will be like the focus group only that lexus will be listening and will cater to all your improvements
For me, I'm wanting to get back into a lexus sedan in the future, so I hope there will be plenty of time for lexus to bring out a 5LS and we'll see how the 4GS goes at the Pebble Beach release.
08-16-11, 05:35 PM
#62
Prestige
n.
The level of respect at which one is regarded by others; standing.
A person's high standing among others; honor or esteem.
Widely recognized prominence, distinction, or importance: a position of prestige in diplomatic circles.
Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/prestige#ixzz1VF2YIGfE
n.
The level of respect at which one is regarded by others; standing.
A person's high standing among others; honor or esteem.
Widely recognized prominence, distinction, or importance: a position of prestige in diplomatic circles.
Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/prestige#ixzz1VF2YIGfE
As I said before, and you conveniently left it out of the quote, prestige is perception. I'm not going to dog Jaguar's refinement because I respect the brand. Is it prestigious? no it isn't, not until their reputation is in line with what prestige means.
If you want to get into other aspects of Jaguar, by all means, create a thread for it, I'll happily participate.
Mercedes Benz is definitely PRESTIGE, almost everyone you ask to name a prestigious luxury car brand will go with Mercedes first.
08-16-11, 05:45 PM
#63
Q7 interior crappy?
Not sure how you've come to that conclusion. What did you think of the outgoing A6's interior? Audi has been recognized for their elegant, world class interiors for a reason. Are they conservative at times? yes. Could they stand to use more wood? perhaps. But even then, they do an excellent job with their aluminum inserts. IMO crappy is quite a bit of a reach? Not only are they well built and virtually gap-less, I never hear of trim falling off or not wearing well due to daily usage. .
Not sure how you've come to that conclusion. What did you think of the outgoing A6's interior? Audi has been recognized for their elegant, world class interiors for a reason. Are they conservative at times? yes. Could they stand to use more wood? perhaps. But even then, they do an excellent job with their aluminum inserts. IMO crappy is quite a bit of a reach? Not only are they well built and virtually gap-less, I never hear of trim falling off or not wearing well due to daily usage. .Additionally, Audi has had problems with wear for years... burning and peeling buttons are pretty common on many models.
http://forums.audiworld.com/tags.php?tag=peeling
08-16-11, 06:13 PM
#64
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I think we should all start our own thread on "what is your perfect lexus"?
Since you're the OP, why don't you start with body style (sedan in your case), hp, price...and what will make it lustful?
This will be like the focus group only that lexus will be listening and will cater to all your improvements
For me, I'm wanting to get back into a lexus sedan in the future, so I hope there will be plenty of time for lexus to bring out a 5LS and we'll see how the 4GS goes at the Pebble Beach release.
Since you're the OP, why don't you start with body style (sedan in your case), hp, price...and what will make it lustful?
This will be like the focus group only that lexus will be listening and will cater to all your improvements
For me, I'm wanting to get back into a lexus sedan in the future, so I hope there will be plenty of time for lexus to bring out a 5LS and we'll see how the 4GS goes at the Pebble Beach release.
Let's start with a mere 700hp and 35 MPG City and 55 Highway.As for me desiring a perfect Lexus, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion based upon me asking for a sexy sedan with an edgier outward appearance? Am I too radical in wanting something offered by everyone else in their immediate realm. Does that mean that I don't like Lexus or appreciate them for what they are? Why don't you start a thread tonight about how ungrateful Lexus owners can be by desiring more from the brand that they love?
previous A6 had aluminium inserts? it felt, looked and knocked like cheapo plastics... Also, most of previous A6 interior is from hard plastic that looks good. I was on a trip in one for a week recently, couldnt find any surface at the back that was even tiny bit soft to touch.
Additionally, Audi has had problems with wear for years... burning and peeling buttons are pretty common on many models.
http://forums.audiworld.com/tags.php?tag=peeling
Additionally, Audi has had problems with wear for years... burning and peeling buttons are pretty common on many models.
http://forums.audiworld.com/tags.php?tag=peeling
08-16-11, 08:30 PM
#65
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I like Jaguar but they are not even in the running. They sell only a handful of cars. They have been in the RED, I.E they have been a company that LOSES MONEY every year for what 40 years now. How is that Tier 1?
Its frustrating to repeat the same things. According to the luxury institute, those with some SERIOUS MULA, the top brands with prestige and Porsche and Lexus/Mercedes. The entire industry recognizes Lexus as Tier 1. When Tier 2 brands are interviewed, they have repeatedly said "we want to be Tier 1 like Lexus, BMW, Benz". Do I have to link this all again? Really?
END THREAD on who is TIER 1.
Its frustrating to repeat the same things. According to the luxury institute, those with some SERIOUS MULA, the top brands with prestige and Porsche and Lexus/Mercedes. The entire industry recognizes Lexus as Tier 1. When Tier 2 brands are interviewed, they have repeatedly said "we want to be Tier 1 like Lexus, BMW, Benz". Do I have to link this all again? Really?
END THREAD on who is TIER 1.
The institute surveyed a sample of 1505 wealthy American consumers with an average income of $278,000 and average net worth of $2.5 million to come up with the results for the luxury auto survey, as well as 1013 ultra-wealthy American consumers with an average income of $489,000 and average investable assets of $6.8 million to generate the result for its ultra-luxury auto survey.
The wealthy among us voted Porsche, Mercedes-Benz and Lexus as the best luxury brands, while the super-duper wealthy put Maybach, Rolls-Royce and Bentley at the top of their list.
The wealthy among us voted Porsche, Mercedes-Benz and Lexus as the best luxury brands, while the super-duper wealthy put Maybach, Rolls-Royce and Bentley at the top of their list.
08-16-11, 09:34 PM
#66
Lexus Test Driver
I like Jaguar but they are not even in the running. They sell only a handful of cars. They have been in the RED, I.E they have been a company that LOSES MONEY every year for what 40 years now. How is that Tier 1?
Its frustrating to repeat the same things. According to the luxury institute, those with some SERIOUS MULA, the top brands with prestige and Porsche and Lexus/Mercedes. The entire industry recognizes Lexus as Tier 1. When Tier 2 brands are interviewed, they have repeatedly said "we want to be Tier 1 like Lexus, BMW, Benz". Do I have to link this all again? Really?
END THREAD on who is TIER 1.
Its frustrating to repeat the same things. According to the luxury institute, those with some SERIOUS MULA, the top brands with prestige and Porsche and Lexus/Mercedes. The entire industry recognizes Lexus as Tier 1. When Tier 2 brands are interviewed, they have repeatedly said "we want to be Tier 1 like Lexus, BMW, Benz". Do I have to link this all again? Really?
END THREAD on who is TIER 1.
Jaguar is not a complete brand but all 3 of their models are more desirable than their Lexus competitors. XJ>LS, XF>GS, XK>? hence the Prestige factor.
Porsche is selling Panameras and Cayenes which are bread and butter Luxury cars that compete directly with Lexus cars.
My point is Lexus is no longer at the same place as it was a decade ago. Its reliability took a major hit, while German brands got better. Now everyone has great dealer service not just Lexus. It doesnt offer that great of value in terms of price. Performance and tech is subpar. So what does it have to separate itself?
IMO they thought hybrids will drive the brand maybe? But nobody really cares for them. I'm pretty sure if the CT was gasoline only it would still sell well bec its a good looking car with exciting colors inside and out.
If I had 50-75-100k to spend, there is no Lexus model I would even look at.
SC430 was a nice car with FUGLY wheels that Lexus didnt update at all. IMO that car has more style inside and out than anything in the new generation of Lexus cars save for the LFA .
08-16-11, 09:49 PM
#67
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What year is this survey??? Lexus fell out of favor in the last 5 years and new players from top (Bentley, Maserati, Porsche, Jaguar) and bottom (Audi, Cadillac) of the luxury market have stepped up.
Jaguar is not a complete brand but all 3 of their models are more desirable than their Lexus competitors. XJ>LS, XF>GS, XK>? hence the Prestige factor.
Porsche is selling Panameras and Cayenes which are bread and butter Luxury cars that compete directly with Lexus cars.
My point is Lexus is no longer at the same place as it was a decade ago. Its reliability took a major hit, while German brands got better. Now everyone has great dealer service not just Lexus. It doesnt offer that great of value in terms of price. Performance and tech is subpar. So what does it have to separate itself?
IMO they thought hybrids will drive the brand maybe? But nobody really cares for them. I'm pretty sure if the CT was gasoline only it would still sell well bec its a good looking car with exciting colors inside and out.
If I had 50-75-100k to spend, there is no Lexus model I would even look at.
SC430 was a nice car with FUGLY wheels that Lexus didnt update at all. IMO that car has more style inside and out than anything in the new generation of Lexus cars save for the LFA .
Jaguar is not a complete brand but all 3 of their models are more desirable than their Lexus competitors. XJ>LS, XF>GS, XK>? hence the Prestige factor.
Porsche is selling Panameras and Cayenes which are bread and butter Luxury cars that compete directly with Lexus cars.
My point is Lexus is no longer at the same place as it was a decade ago. Its reliability took a major hit, while German brands got better. Now everyone has great dealer service not just Lexus. It doesnt offer that great of value in terms of price. Performance and tech is subpar. So what does it have to separate itself?
IMO they thought hybrids will drive the brand maybe? But nobody really cares for them. I'm pretty sure if the CT was gasoline only it would still sell well bec its a good looking car with exciting colors inside and out.
If I had 50-75-100k to spend, there is no Lexus model I would even look at.
SC430 was a nice car with FUGLY wheels that Lexus didnt update at all. IMO that car has more style inside and out than anything in the new generation of Lexus cars save for the LFA .
You are taking your personal bias and trying to pawn it off as fact. You can been entitled to your opinion but it is not fact.
Simply GOOGLE the results, Lexus has placed in the top 3 the last few years in that survey which completely DISPROVES your theory.
Performance is sub-par? How exactly. They seem on par or better than many. Sure they have gaps but not as glaring as others.
Show me the BMW to match the LFA? Alrighty then.
You are wrong about the CT, it is selling like MAD everywhere globally. Please do some research.
Lexus only makes the most technologically advanced cars in hybrids. Not sure how that is tech falling behind others when EVERYONE is trying to make their own Lexus hybrid.
08-16-11, 10:19 PM
#68
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I too love Jags, and am a fan of the XF just as you are Mike. However I would not put Jaguar in Tier 1 at the expense of pushing Lexus down a rung. That's a joke. Lexus has been and STILL is clearly Tier 1 here in North America. As I've stated, Jaguar has a hill to climb to claim a spot they once held in the public's eye, much of which is their own fault. However I don't think the lack of a large lineup should be the criteria for what makes a brand prestigious. It's a culmination of things. Sales, on road performance, history to a degree, design, price point and public perception or more importantly owners perception. Do you get that spot up front at the club or 5 star restaurant? Things of that nature. Small line up or not Jaguar is clearly back in the game. We're not talking about V6 only Acura.
Though Jag fell off some years back I still think people know and recognize the brand for making bad *** cars through out their history (we'll leave out the garbage they produced for the sake of my argument
). Porsche is a prestigious brand with a relatively small line up yet are very desirable amongst enthusiasts, celebrities, moguls and hot women. They are by most definition a Tier 1 brand. They simply make cars that people desire. Hell, practically their whole line up are on most people's wish lists. If I recall they had financial woes just as BMW and Audi did years ago, that still doesn't take away from the idea of prestige. Just because a company makes poor business decisions doesn't mean that they don't make prestigious products. It just means that they don't thoroughly understand their customer and how to change with the times. Let's not forget the importance of branding. Establishing an identity and keeping one while changing with the times can be difficult for most businesses in any sector. That said, I don't see how anyone could legitimately argue that Lexus isn't a TIER 1 brand. They didn't need an LFA to establish that either. That was just the proverbial sledge hammer to kill a fly.
Though Jag fell off some years back I still think people know and recognize the brand for making bad *** cars through out their history (we'll leave out the garbage they produced for the sake of my argument
). Porsche is a prestigious brand with a relatively small line up yet are very desirable amongst enthusiasts, celebrities, moguls and hot women. They are by most definition a Tier 1 brand. They simply make cars that people desire. Hell, practically their whole line up are on most people's wish lists. If I recall they had financial woes just as BMW and Audi did years ago, that still doesn't take away from the idea of prestige. Just because a company makes poor business decisions doesn't mean that they don't make prestigious products. It just means that they don't thoroughly understand their customer and how to change with the times. Let's not forget the importance of branding. Establishing an identity and keeping one while changing with the times can be difficult for most businesses in any sector. That said, I don't see how anyone could legitimately argue that Lexus isn't a TIER 1 brand. They didn't need an LFA to establish that either. That was just the proverbial sledge hammer to kill a fly.
The XJ is different for a big sedan.
08-16-11, 10:33 PM
#70
Yes, we already know Porsche is prestigious, what is your point about Panamera and Cayenne? people like those cars, they consider them prestigious and buy them.
Somebody previously made a claim that Jaguar is prestigious but everything points to the fact that it isn't, not until people start buying them again for status and reputation.
08-16-11, 10:34 PM
#71
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Werrrd...I'm strongly considering copping an '06 and debadging it, only to order some leaping cat emblems from Hennessy Jaguar on over Piedmont to complete the look. I'm all about that for the Fall season. Might even stop in Autozone and buy 4 stick on mesh gills for the side. Why 4 you ask? because 2 is not baller enough. I'm putting some on the rear doors. Don't act like you've never seen that before.
08-16-11, 10:39 PM
#72
Lexus Test Driver
1SICKLEX
Look I like Jaguar but NO ONE considers them Tier 1. They DO NOT have a complete lineup they are not seen as something to Aim for or surpass and they haven't made A DIME in 30-40 years.
You are taking your personal bias and trying to pawn it off as fact. You can been entitled to your opinion but it is not fact.
I dont have a bias. I have owned Lexus cars and never had a Jag!
Simply GOOGLE the results, Lexus has placed in the top 3 the last few years in that survey which completely DISPROVES your theory.
Performance is sub-par? How exactly. They seem on par or better than many. Sure they have gaps but not as glaring as others.
Lets see: Poor handling, steering, stability at high speeds.....No coupes, 1 F model.
Show me the BMW to match the LFA? Alrighty then.
Bro who cares about the LFA. Its a great car, but its not close to being the best at anything. Are you honestly saying that BMW cant build a supercar??? LOL Where the F>CK was Lexus when BMW had the M1, Z8, 8 Series. The whole //M division is something Lexus would die to have.
You are wrong about the CT, it is selling like MAD everywhere globally. Please do some research.
Reread my post. I like the CT and i KNOW its selling. My point was its a success bec of its styling and exciting colors not bec its a HYBRID!
Lexus only makes the most technologically advanced cars in hybrids. Not sure how that is tech falling behind others when EVERYONE is trying to make their own Lexus hybrid.
Unfortunately for Lexus nobody cares about their hybrids. NOBODY. The only hybrid that has been a sales success is the Toyota Prius.
BTW my family owned a RX400h, so im fairly familiar with their tech.
Look I like Jaguar but NO ONE considers them Tier 1. They DO NOT have a complete lineup they are not seen as something to Aim for or surpass and they haven't made A DIME in 30-40 years.
You are taking your personal bias and trying to pawn it off as fact. You can been entitled to your opinion but it is not fact.
I dont have a bias. I have owned Lexus cars and never had a Jag!
Simply GOOGLE the results, Lexus has placed in the top 3 the last few years in that survey which completely DISPROVES your theory.
Performance is sub-par? How exactly. They seem on par or better than many. Sure they have gaps but not as glaring as others.
Lets see: Poor handling, steering, stability at high speeds.....No coupes, 1 F model.
Show me the BMW to match the LFA? Alrighty then.
Bro who cares about the LFA. Its a great car, but its not close to being the best at anything. Are you honestly saying that BMW cant build a supercar??? LOL Where the F>CK was Lexus when BMW had the M1, Z8, 8 Series. The whole //M division is something Lexus would die to have.
You are wrong about the CT, it is selling like MAD everywhere globally. Please do some research.
Reread my post. I like the CT and i KNOW its selling. My point was its a success bec of its styling and exciting colors not bec its a HYBRID!
Lexus only makes the most technologically advanced cars in hybrids. Not sure how that is tech falling behind others when EVERYONE is trying to make their own Lexus hybrid.
Unfortunately for Lexus nobody cares about their hybrids. NOBODY. The only hybrid that has been a sales success is the Toyota Prius.
BTW my family owned a RX400h, so im fairly familiar with their tech.
08-16-11, 10:44 PM
#73
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thank you. I am never really impressed with Audi's interiors and people always say they have the best interiors, etc. Good thing I am not the only one who thinks their interiors are not all that.
08-16-11, 10:49 PM
#74
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What Lexus has poor handling? Oh I get it a Lexus not designed to handle well has poor handling? Did it occur to you that maybe priorities are different? The LFA is a coupe, there are two F models now, LFA and IS F. Now I agree Lexus steering could improve and they have worked on it. Contrarily BMW steering is moving to the Camry side of things as they aim to sell more vehicles. Yeah a base ES ain't fun at high speeds, an F-sport Lexus is another thing.
Stop painting all Lexus vehicles with a paint brush, the lineup varies.
So now its "who cares about the LFA"? What kind of enthusiast says "hey lets not care about a V-10, 550hp, carbon fiber, exotic car"? I should stop responding at this point. I love the BMW M division, they started with one car and have expanded over time. Lexus is now building their division.
MY POINT STANDS WHERE IS THE PRODUCTION BMW THAT CAN MATCH THE LFA??? There is none so don't get mad at that FACT. So its okay for you to blast Lexus for bad steering and handling but now you want to say "oh forget the Lexus that can out handle and out steer any BMW"? What type of one-sided flawed logic counter argument is that?
Nobody cares about their hybrids? More opinion you pass off as some fact? They are the leader in hybrids and everyone is rushing to make a luxury hybrid. Seems the competition cares. I get it though, its stupid for Lexus to take a risk and lead in hybrid technology. What kind of double standard is this? So they lead with technology but you say no one cares? Which is it?
Stop painting all Lexus vehicles with a paint brush, the lineup varies.
So now its "who cares about the LFA"? What kind of enthusiast says "hey lets not care about a V-10, 550hp, carbon fiber, exotic car"? I should stop responding at this point. I love the BMW M division, they started with one car and have expanded over time. Lexus is now building their division.
MY POINT STANDS WHERE IS THE PRODUCTION BMW THAT CAN MATCH THE LFA??? There is none so don't get mad at that FACT. So its okay for you to blast Lexus for bad steering and handling but now you want to say "oh forget the Lexus that can out handle and out steer any BMW"? What type of one-sided flawed logic counter argument is that?
Nobody cares about their hybrids? More opinion you pass off as some fact? They are the leader in hybrids and everyone is rushing to make a luxury hybrid. Seems the competition cares. I get it though, its stupid for Lexus to take a risk and lead in hybrid technology. What kind of double standard is this? So they lead with technology but you say no one cares? Which is it?
08-16-11, 11:10 PM
#75
Lexus Test Driver
What Lexus has poor handling? Oh I get it a Lexus not designed to handle well has poor handling? Did it occur to you that maybe priorities are different? The LFA is a coupe, there are two F models now, LFA and IS F. Now I agree Lexus steering could improve and they have worked on it. Contrarily BMW steering is moving to the Camry side of things as they aim to sell more vehicles. Yeah a base ES ain't fun at high speeds, an F-sport Lexus is another thing.
Stop painting all Lexus vehicles with a paint brush, the lineup varies.
So now its "who cares about the LFA"? What kind of enthusiast says "hey lets not care about a V-10, 550hp, carbon fiber, exotic car"? I should stop responding at this point. I love the BMW M division, they started with one car and have expanded over time. Lexus is now building their division.
MY POINT STANDS WHERE IS THE PRODUCTION BMW THAT CAN MATCH THE LFA??? There is none so don't get mad at that FACT. So its okay for you to blast Lexus for bad steering and handling but now you want to say "oh forget the Lexus that can out handle and out steer any BMW"? What type of one-sided flawed logic counter argument is that?
Nobody cares about their hybrids? More opinion you pass off as some fact? They are the leader in hybrids and everyone is rushing to make a luxury hybrid. Seems the competition cares. I get it though, its stupid for Lexus to take a risk and lead in hybrid technology. What kind of double standard is this? So they lead with technology but you say no one cares? Which is it?
Stop painting all Lexus vehicles with a paint brush, the lineup varies.
So now its "who cares about the LFA"? What kind of enthusiast says "hey lets not care about a V-10, 550hp, carbon fiber, exotic car"? I should stop responding at this point. I love the BMW M division, they started with one car and have expanded over time. Lexus is now building their division.
MY POINT STANDS WHERE IS THE PRODUCTION BMW THAT CAN MATCH THE LFA??? There is none so don't get mad at that FACT. So its okay for you to blast Lexus for bad steering and handling but now you want to say "oh forget the Lexus that can out handle and out steer any BMW"? What type of one-sided flawed logic counter argument is that?
Nobody cares about their hybrids? More opinion you pass off as some fact? They are the leader in hybrids and everyone is rushing to make a luxury hybrid. Seems the competition cares. I get it though, its stupid for Lexus to take a risk and lead in hybrid technology. What kind of double standard is this? So they lead with technology but you say no one cares? Which is it?
What luxury maker is rushing to get hybrids???
BMW - NO
MB - NO (has 1 i think)
Audi - NO
Cadillac - NO
Porsche - has a few
I dont care about any hybrid and neither do 80 to 90% of buyers in luxury segment. They care about styling, performance, luxury, Brand Prestige!
If hybrids were so cool, Lexus would not be suffering. :