MM Review: 2012 Toyota Camry XLE V6
10-05-11, 03:17 PM
#46
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10-05-11, 03:20 PM
#47
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I respect your opinion, but I did find a difference. Basically, I was comparing the door-solidness of the 2012 to the 2011. It's not an enormous difference, I'll grant you, but, IMO, noticeable.
We're seeing that on a lot of new or redesigned cars today, for two reasons......first, cost-cutting, and, second, weight-cutting for higher gas mileage. Of course, no matter how thin or thick they make the door sheet metal, American-market verions still have to pass DOT/NHTSA side-impact-standards....that's a given.
We're seeing that on a lot of new or redesigned cars today, for two reasons......first, cost-cutting, and, second, weight-cutting for higher gas mileage. Of course, no matter how thin or thick they make the door sheet metal, American-market verions still have to pass DOT/NHTSA side-impact-standards....that's a given.
10-05-11, 03:42 PM
#48
The car I drove had the 2GR-FE, and it remains an exceptional engine, and a freakin' rocket on wheels. If NASA could figure out how to put Camrys into space, there would be no need for costly rockets and constant flip-flopping on what they want to do. OK, that's a colorful exaggeration, but this mother is fast. Period.
10-05-11, 06:52 PM
#49
Lexus Fanatic
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Oh I agree, the new CAFE standards are really making the engineers work over time building the new cars. While thinner sheet metal would certainly affect weight, I think it's the overall engineering of the car's structure that will take a diet in the coming years. GM should be particualrly concerned, as a lot of their recent cars are far too fat and it's going to start affecting FE.
10-05-11, 08:30 PM
#51
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10-06-11, 06:41 AM
#53
Maybe so, but if GM starts to take too much pork out of their cars, they are going to lose some of the customers they've worked so hard to get back....and to keep. A lot of traditional GM buyers, particularly at Buick and Cadillac, like larger, heavier-feeling cars with smooth rides. They don't want downsized, featherweight cars.....they like the mass, CAFE or no CAFE.
On the 12 Camry. Test drove one and the difference to me a pretty night and day. I drive my mother's 07 Camry about once a week (purposefully on longer trips as she drives it about cumulative 20 minutes for 4 miles a day to and from her friend's and her Church... bad for the engine) and the ride and steering are more taught and refined. The whole car is just better than the outgoing model. I'm very impressed.
10-06-11, 12:04 PM
#55
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Yes, although, with today's technology, there are a number of ways to get better fuel-mileage, the CAFE laws might still be at odds with (and fighting against) what much of the public still wants (which is substantial-sized cars with substantial-sized powertrains). This is one reason (among many) why the Obama Administration is in serious political trouble, but perhaps that issue is best-saved for the DEBATE forum, not this one.
10-06-11, 05:00 PM
#56
Yes, although, with today's technology, there are a number of ways to get better fuel-mileage, the CAFE laws might still be at odds with (and fighting against) what much of the public still wants (which is substantial-sized cars with substantial-sized powertrains). This is one reason (among many) why the Obama Administration is in serious political trouble, but perhaps that issue is best-saved for the DEBATE forum, not this one.
10-06-11, 07:27 PM
#57
Lexus Fanatic
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I have to disagree. Yes, you are correct that (all else equal) extra weight does work against fuel-mileage, handling/steering response, acceleration, and braking. But weight clearly helps vehicle stability, crosswind-resistance, ride-comfort, vehicle-quietness (from more insulation), and, of course, (potential) crash-worthiness. Depending on where the weight is located vs. the driving-wheels, more weight often means more traction, especially on slippery roads.
Last edited by mmarshall; 10-06-11 at 07:34 PM.
10-07-11, 01:58 AM
#58
I have to disagree. Yes, you are correct that (all else equal) extra weight does work against fuel-mileage, handling/steering response, acceleration, and braking. But weight clearly helps vehicle stability, crosswind-resistance, ride-comfort, vehicle-quietness (from more insulation), and, of course, (potential) crash-worthiness. Depending on where the weight is located vs. the driving-wheels, more weight often means more traction, especially on slippery roads.
Crosswind - Aero
Ride - suspension and $$$
Quietness - insulation and $$$
Safety - Engineering. If you crash against barrier your own car weight will be against you.
So all of those can be solved by engineering and money invested into high strenght steel, better suspension, better materials, that dont have to weight more, but probably might cost more.
10-07-11, 11:02 AM
#60
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Another thing I would like to add is that I feel car makers are making it seem like it is hard to meet cafe standards but it is entirely possible when you are willing to dump r&d and money to solve the problem.
from 1 model year, with the same engines, toyota is able to increase the 3.5 v6 1mpg in each category to hit the 21/30. The 2.5 4cyl. is an even bigger improvement at at 25/35 an increase in 2/3 mpg respectably and a combined improvement of 2mpg. I dont know what they did but it is essentially the same engine, all without the newest latest and greatest engine tech such as DI and turbos.
the camry hybrid? a phenomenal 8 mpg improvement with an increase in horsepower at the same time. Automakers are just not willing to do it but I am sure that the strict cafe standards are achievable
from 1 model year, with the same engines, toyota is able to increase the 3.5 v6 1mpg in each category to hit the 21/30. The 2.5 4cyl. is an even bigger improvement at at 25/35 an increase in 2/3 mpg respectably and a combined improvement of 2mpg. I dont know what they did but it is essentially the same engine, all without the newest latest and greatest engine tech such as DI and turbos.
the camry hybrid? a phenomenal 8 mpg improvement with an increase in horsepower at the same time. Automakers are just not willing to do it but I am sure that the strict cafe standards are achievable