Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Car and Driver calls out J.D. Power IQS

Ford has taken it on the chin from J.D. Power since the carmaker rolled out its new MyFord Touch system in the 2011 Explorer. Ford's ranking in the influential Initial Quality Survey dropped from fifth last year all the way down to 23rd, in large measure because of customer dissatisfaction with the new technology and its voice recognition interface, but also because of refinement complaints about the PowerShift dual-clutch transmission in the Fiesta. But unlike, say, the Houston Cougars, who plummeted in the Bowl Championship Series rankings after getting blown out in the Conference USA title game this weekend, Ford can make a pretty good case that it's getting jobbed.

The traditional definition of quality when it comes to new cars and trucks has been based on those vehicles being free of defects. But in the last few years, the tide has been turning, in large measure because J.D. Power is increasingly weighing customer complaints related to design and, in particular, new electronic technology. Car and Driver paints the complaints that have dogged Ford among the latter, suggesting that these are less valid quality metrics than something like a poorly assembled door panel.

The venerable buff book doesn't stop at defending Ford, however, cautioning against what it sees as a trend "toward the lowest-common-denominator solutions to reduce design 'problems.'" Citing examples like BMW moving its cruise control from a separate stalk to buttons on the steering wheel to appease whining customers and Porsche getting dinged on IQS for using brake pads that generate too much dust, C/D doesn't say it outright, but certainly implies that J.D. Power is no longer pushing automakers in the right direction.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/05/c...j-d-power-iqs/

mmarshall

I'm with C&D on this one. If the system is operating as it should, and does not have any actual defects in its assembly or installation, then that, IMO, is not a vehicle-defect. That is just consumer-resistance to the design. Of course, I myself admit that I don't like a number of those type of designs, including the MyTouch, BMW I-Drive, Audi's MMI, and a number of similiar systems. I've complained about them before, and will continue to do so.

Flip the coin over.....I'm with J&D Power on this one. Ford had a number of silky-smooth DSG/twin-clutch transmissions from other manufacturers to examine and use as examples, especially the superb VW/Audi unit. They didn't have to put in units in the new Fiesta and Focus that hesitated and vibrated in first gear, from rest.

spwolf

IQS is 90 day customer satisfaction survey... not 3 year reliability one.

So if customers are not satisfied with their MyTouch, then yes, it will show.

MyTouch freezing and rebooting which in turns disabled your A/C (and in some cases, starts blowing cold air at top speed until it is rebooted), is IMHO larger issue than inherent low speed jerkiness of powershift.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i think many 'methodologies' out there stink.

was looking at a friend's consumer reports car edition recently and saw these charts with rankings as some amount 'above average' or 'below average'. some cars were shown as more than '100' below average and some maybe a 100 (can't remember) above average. i remember seeing that a porsche cayenne got about the worst score possible and i'm thinking, is it really that bad as how they make it look? or is CR just good at putting out exaggerated/distorted info in both praise and criticism and the sheeple just read it and go with it?

if 100 different vehicles have a range of 'quality' from 98-102 then the bottom one is only 4% 'worse' than the top one, but a graph could portray it as 0-100 with the 98 shown as 0 and the 102 shown as 100, making it look FAR worse than reality.

and about j.d.powers, if subjective weightings of 'factors' are used, then it's just 'opinion' at that point pawned off as objective analysis.

LeX2K

Car and Driver has no business criticizing anyone's methodologies. They stick Honda models in their annual top 10 issue no matter how terrible the car actually is, only because it is a Honda. I remember when C&D was a good magazine, about 30 years ago.

whoster

I stopped caring and I just want a car that I like.


If the car I like also happens to be reliable then hey what good fortune!

Toys4RJill

I agree with you. If it is not working right or well and is the design leaves you wanting more, then it can in fact ne a quality issue.

spwolf

i was actually wondering recently why that cayenne is so dirt cheap here :-).

LexBob2

I saw that CR issue too. In the case of the Cayenne (and others) they're saying its predicted reliability is 85% below the average for "all surveyed cars".

I8ABMR

Thats insane. I am glad I didnt buy a used one when we bought my wife an SUV last year.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

what does '85%' mean though?

so i guess if an 'average' vehicle has 100 problems, a cayenne has 185 problems?

or much more likely if an average vehicle has 2 problems, a cayenne has 3.7 problems, or 1.7 more problems than average. is that a big deal on a vehicle made in such small numbers or so much sophisticated than an average vehicle? i don't think so. so what's the average vehicle there, a sedan, a mainstream suv? comparing those to a cayenne is STUPID, but again, it makes CR seem like it's doing something important pointing out to the public how the world-renowned porsche is 85% worse than average!

spwolf

eh, please. JD loves Porsche usually. But new owners apparently dont like new Cayenne.

Yes, being more problematic than other vehicles is a big problem. Porsche's are actually on the top of these lists usually, but this is first model since VAG took over, and bottom of the barrel Audi Execs run the show now.

mmarshall

Yes, I would agree. If the MyTouch system keeps turning the A/C off when it's like a sauna-bath outside, that is certainly more irritating than a little first-gear tranny unrefinement. But I only brought up the comparison, in my last post, as an illustration of difference between the way C&D and JD Power seemed to making their judgements, that's all....not necessarily to measure the actual severity of the defect or problem.

spwolf

yeah keep in perspective that this is 90 day survey... it is more of "annoyance" survey than reliability.

I just checked Porsche forums, and it seems like a lot of people have problems with them using a lot of oil, so no wonder they are not happy. Usually things like this on survey can be easily seen by visiting perspective forums.

mmarshall

Porsche owners, though, often tend to flog their engines and drive them pretty hard....especially with the Boxster, Cayman, and 911, even when new. Do that with a brand-new engine and the rings and valves may not seat properly.......and then there goes your oil consumption. Automakers say to hold RPMs below 4500 and not accelerate full-force for the first several hundred miles for a reason.