Mr. Burns

Build them in Canada and I will be happy. The RX plant here is award winning, move over the ES and IS as well.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i know the rxh is not made in canada, that's why i said i wouldn't consider rx350 (not h). i won't go into details, but if digging deep, i would say the fit and finish on the rxh is a bit better, and more important, imho, the paint job.

flip the coin, i am not saying the rx350 being made in canada is bad. i am just saying lexus built in japan seem to have better quality imho

LexFather

That is so far off the mark this thread should be closed for inaccuracy While Toyota/Lexus has proven more than anyone that they can build a plant anywhere with success, it is vastly more complicated than how you explain it, which might explain why you are so easy to come to such elementary conclusions.

There is great pride in Japan to build their automobiles there. Lexus is one of the most revered and loved and admired brands in Japan for their success against all odds. There is tremendous pride to work for Lexus in Japan building those cars.

Lexus vehicles have won multiple awards for class leading plants and their more complicated and halo vehicle have special engineers that go through rigorous testing to be chosen. It is an honor just to take the test.

Acura moved production to America/Canada for their most popular models and most people don't seem to care or know their MDX is Canadian and the TL has been American since 1999. It initially helped keep costs down but the price advantage & value is hardly there anymore. Lexus moved production of the RX to Canada and it has recently won a quality award. Some members here have visited it and its really just as good as a Japanese plant in most cases.

Clearly BMW, Benz moved production here and no one cares.All the cars made here sells well and b/c they have the BADGE POWER no one questions an American made X5 or GL etc. They can only gain in quality control since they are not known for great reliability. In other words there is NOTHING to lose building them here and it helped them as the currency changed in their favor.

Infiniti building cars here was a DISASTER since they don't have great management then hired workers here who followed them. The QX56 was one of the worst build vehicles and they moved production BACK to Japan where it shows today. Now they will try again building the JX in Tennessee.

Which brings us to the YEN, something some of us have warned for years. Unlike many large American Companies, Japanese Companies WANT to keep their people employed and DO NOT want to move production out of Japan. They understand the importance of "am I my brothers keeper" and keeping people gainfully employed with a future. With the YEN struggling more than ever, they are being pushed to the breaking point of this tradition.

So in essence Lexus has an A/A+ record in regards to decisions. If they decide to build here IMO it would be an honor for factory workers who apply to build some of the highest quality cars in the world. It also can prove two points;

1. If a Lexus built in America continues to win quality awards, then the problem is not Americans. The problem is with management and processes and equipment and the workers last. Clearly Toyota/Lexus can build the best in America, a tribute to Lexus management and methods.

2. If a Lexus built in America has a significant drop in quality that does not bode well for America and Americans and sadly helps prove something that many people insist. We don't care. Lexus could not risk any bad publicity considering the WITCH-HUNT they just went through.

In summary it is far more complex and vast ( I didn't touch hedging) than your simple post states.

Toys4RJill

Nice response but I stand by what I said. Toyota has been able to move:

1. Tacoma from Cali to Texas

2. Tundra from Indiana to Texas

3. Hybrid Camry to the US.

4. Toyota 4.7 2UZ motors in late
2004 from Japan to the US.

5. Highlander from Japan to Indiana.

Rumor is that 4Runner is coming to the US as well.

So it can be moved a lot easier than one thinks. The RX is stunning example of that and Canadians sure can win awards for building it.

I have no doubt the next gen ES will eventually be U.S built, maybe the IS as well. Japan will keep the GS and above as they don't sell in enough volume to make it worthwhile.

Time will tell if I right or wrong, and as a long time Toyota-Lexus owner, I would support the move.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Regardless what we want, i think this is inevitable

bad co

In the end Lexus is a company, ToMoCo has an obligation to its stock holders. If that means shifting production to the states to make a profit then it will put all the cultural/patriotic ideas aside.

spwolf

I have experience with Toyota's sold in Europe, some models were built in Japan while exactly the same models were built in Europe.

This happened with Auris and Yaris, during new model introductions, they would have Japanese built models during the sales craze that happens in first months/year (to fulfill the demand).

You could never tell the difference. Only thing we noticed was that doors on the UK built ones were closing with better sound, even if car itself looks exactly the same.

So it is all up to Toyota, upholding the same quality standards in NA as they do in their Japanese factories.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

no doubt, but you don't think there's pride in any u.s. based plant? granted in michigan that pride extends to (documented) drunken celebrations at lunch by uaw workers, but i digress.

absolutely. but that doesn't mean it can't be replicated anywhere. is it hard? sure. is it possible? sure. on a related note, let's take 'master techs' at dealerships including ones we know. do they take pride and are supremely professional, extremely well trained and competent? you know the answer is yes.

ultimately it's all economics. moving or starting up a plant in a 'foreign' country is a daunting challenge. no one wants to do it if there isn't a clear advantage. but the u.s. dollar will continue to get weaker, leaving lexus (toyota) no choice. though they may get built south or north of the border if tax and regulation situations are preferable.

a little too much koolaid there , but sure, most companies don't like laying off people, and yes, japan still has a tremendous 'national' pride. the u.s. has pride too of course, but u.s. execs are much more embracing of 'globalization' and using labor wherever for cost, logistics, regulatory, or other reasons. this is harsh, but it's why the u.s. is still competitive at all. it's AHEAD of the curve in many ways. nationalism is so last century.

the yen isn't struggling, the DOLLAR is struggling.

i think you're putting forth a false dichotomy. if it works, then both management and the 'workers' are not a problem.

faulty logic IMO. if it doesn't work, ultimately it's still a management problem.

84Cressida

It makes perfect sense to move ES production alongside the RX, and to eventually move 4Runner, Yaris, and Prius production here to the US. The IS, GS, and LS especially can stay in Japan for now and I wouldn't expect Lexus to move production of those cars anytime soon.

RXGS

iTrader: (2)

If the es moves production to the US, we will gladly pay more for a gs. To be honest, if any car moves here it should be the is, it is the cheaper of the line. The 4runner should stay in japan as well. We know people who refuse to drive german cars in the US as well claiming it's just not the same. Infact i was talking to someone at the mercedes dealership today and he referred to the ml as "It's never been a real mercedes since the day it debuted" If it does happen, which i feel it will, i can only assume the brand will be heading downwards, just my personal opinion. As to current toyota's being built in the US, isn't that about the time toyota started to occur quality issues?

RaceSC300

Oh boy, if Lexus moves production to the US it will be BIG trouble.

I work at a Lexus/Toyota/Scion dealership, so I see plenty of the new cars that come in, and we have genuine problems with cars built in the US. I have seen US and Japan built Rav4s side by side, and you can see the difference.

I have had numerous conversations with co-workers about the situation and we are baffled. Same car, same parts, supposedly the same QC and yet the US built can can't match up. It is not to say the US built cars are trash, they couldn't be or Toyota wouldn't have made it this far, but there is an attention to detail that is apparent in the Japan built car that isn't in the US built model.

I am not crapping on American workers, but I think there is something missing in the US factories that the Japanese factories still have. Until they can figure out what the x-factor is, I wouldn't want them to shift production to the US.

RXGS

iTrader: (2)

^ Thank you same with japanese and canadian made RX's, they are both good, but you can tell the difference

spwolf

i dont understand what that means.

there is no way for production worker to put things together in any other way than correct way. Any actual difference is an engineering problem and not construction one. Same goes for the parts - all parts are built to the same standard (Toyota specification), they dont differ, nor did I ever notice some issues specific to european models.

i have seen hundreds of european and japanese built toyotas next to each other and you cant tell a difference.

of course, i just saw some postings on local forum here on how there is big difference between turkish built and japanese built Auris's, which is not true, people inventing things in their mind.

LexFather

Looks above, doesn't seem one Lexus name. .

Looks above, post to simplistic.

Lexus/Toyota have proven to be brilliant companies sitting on cash worth more than a few of its competitors combined. I am positive if they felt it was in their best interest to move production here, they would have already. It might still come but for now the reasons I outlined I feel are pretty solid.

I feel the MEDIA would be key here as well as the government. We saw the witch hunt they did on Toyota unjustly so. If Lexus is built here and one damn car has one damn problem it will be blown up like H1N1.

gengar

In my head, really?

Earlier this year, I got to tour one of Toyota's production lines at Motomachi. After personally witnessing what goes on at Toyota in Japan, I don't believe at all that American automotive production has the ability, the right mindset, or the necessary organizational and cultural values that all lead to better manufacturing and better processes in Japanese assembly plants. I don't believe the workers are good enough and I don't believe the management is good enough.

Additionally, one huge problem in moving production to the US is that some components will invariably become sourced from the US or in nearby countries. So now even third-party components could have quality issues based on production location, which in turn could be based on assembly location. After all, ever wonder why certain cars of the same model and MY get recalled, but not others? Take the now-infamous alleged faulty gas pedal recall. One of the pedal components specified during at least part of the recall was from a US-based supplier (sadly from CTS Corp, based near where I once lived in Indiana). Vehicles built in certain other countries, even of the same model and MY as the recalled vehicles, had pedal assemblies sourced from suppliers local to their assembly and were not recalled.

I have no problems with the desire for US production or being pro-US assembly, but it shouldn't be due to a misguided patriotism. The reality is that shifting production has many consequences.

Surely you don't actually believe this. Human error is the major cause of quality problems whether in engineering, production, or management.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that much of quality control is actually based on Toyota's production processes in Japan. Terms like JIT and jidoka, now understood in management throughout the world, either originated from or were developed within Toyota. There's a reason why Porsche's Wiedeking went to Toyota to understand their production philosophy so he could turn his then-fledgling company around. Without getting too technical, the importance of concepts like JIT/jidoka is that quality control occurs at both the organizational and the individual level. The right values have to exist both structurally and individually.

The simple reality is that, while quality is at least partially a function of the organization, it still requires individual input. Visible and understandable standards might be a responsibility at the organizational level, but it still is up to individuals to seek out, understand, and report issues so that systemic problems can be eradicated. If the individuals in the assembly process do not possess the right organizational or cultural values, then the processes will suffer and products they make will not have the same quality as products assembled by individuals who do.

I also already mentioned above that inconsistencies exist in parts sourced from different geographical areas. If there was truly no difference in how components are assembled to spec, then there would not be problems only affecting vehicles with components sourced only from specific plants.