-->> my Lexus ISF has been in for 1 service appointment 74 days! <<---
12-20-11, 12:29 PM
#16
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They have outsourced some of the work as they are not well equipped to do engine rebuilds. They had a 2nd party measure the engine parts to find what was out of spec. They have one guy they trust to do the build. He has had to source tools to do the work, they have run into delays getting parts. They have ordered wrong parts and had to re-order parts, etc.
Only ~7,000 ISFs have been built. No one knows how to work on them, most is being done over the tech phone line, also slows the process.
Interesting idea of Tweeting, as it is very public, I'm sure they pay a lot of attention regarding their reputation. I'll try it. Thanks
Only ~7,000 ISFs have been built. No one knows how to work on them, most is being done over the tech phone line, also slows the process.
Interesting idea of Tweeting, as it is very public, I'm sure they pay a lot of attention regarding their reputation. I'll try it. Thanks
12-20-11, 12:34 PM
#17
They have outsourced some of the work as they are not well equipped to do engine rebuilds. They had a 2nd party measure the engine parts to find what was out of spec. They have one guy they trust to do the build. He has had to source tools to do the work, they have run into delays getting parts. They have ordered wrong parts and had to re-order parts, etc.
Only ~7,000 ISFs have been built. No one knows how to work on them, most is being done over the tech phone line, also slows the process.
Interesting idea of Tweeting, as it is very public, I'm sure they pay a lot of attention regarding their reputation. I'll try it. Thanks
Only ~7,000 ISFs have been built. No one knows how to work on them, most is being done over the tech phone line, also slows the process.
Interesting idea of Tweeting, as it is very public, I'm sure they pay a lot of attention regarding their reputation. I'll try it. Thanks
1. but in any case, your car is 3 years old, so lemon law does not apply.
2. did you get replacement car to drive?
3. did you get lexus do give you some free accessories for the ordeal?
4. there is never an new engine that comes assembled. Even if they ordered everything (which never happens, they always replace only failed parts after inspection of everything else being fine), it still has to be assembled at the dealer, from grounds up.
12-20-11, 12:36 PM
#18
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
They do not in their entire shop have gauges accurate enough to measure the tolerance of the crank bearings. They had to source new "go-nogo" gauges.
They did not know how to order the crank bearings and ordered the wrong size. Measurements are stamped on the block and on the crank as to the spacing for each particular motor, the numbers must be collected, a calculation made and the correct bearings ordered. They did not know this.
There are other examples. Basic components are the same, yes, but they are also the same with my lawn mower.
12-20-11, 12:40 PM
#19
Exact problems they have run into due to their lack of experience:
They do not in their entire shop have gauges accurate enough to measure the tolerance of the crank bearings. They had to source new "go-nogo" gauges.
They did not know how to order the crank bearings and ordered the wrong size. Measurements are stamped on the block and on the crank as to the spacing for each particular motor, the numbers must be collected, a calculation made and the correct bearings ordered. They did not know this.
There are other examples. Basic components are the same, yes, but they are also the same with my lawn mower.
They do not in their entire shop have gauges accurate enough to measure the tolerance of the crank bearings. They had to source new "go-nogo" gauges.
They did not know how to order the crank bearings and ordered the wrong size. Measurements are stamped on the block and on the crank as to the spacing for each particular motor, the numbers must be collected, a calculation made and the correct bearings ordered. They did not know this.
There are other examples. Basic components are the same, yes, but they are also the same with my lawn mower.
Maybe you can make a deal with Lexus on a new IS-F or other model.
12-20-11, 12:42 PM
#20
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
seems like unexperienced dealer, it doesnt matter how many cars were sold, we have done rebuilds on engines we never saw before, not an problem, just takes a little bit longer.
1. but in any case, your car is 3 years old, so lemon law does not apply.
2. did you get replacement car to drive?
3. did you get lexus do give you some free accessories for the ordeal?
4. there is never an new engine that comes assembled. Even if they ordered everything (which never happens, they always replace only failed parts after inspection of everything else being fine), it still has to be assembled at the dealer, from grounds up.
1. but in any case, your car is 3 years old, so lemon law does not apply.
2. did you get replacement car to drive?
3. did you get lexus do give you some free accessories for the ordeal?
4. there is never an new engine that comes assembled. Even if they ordered everything (which never happens, they always replace only failed parts after inspection of everything else being fine), it still has to be assembled at the dealer, from grounds up.
2. Yes, a replacement car, but an RX350 is not an ISF
3. No, Lexus has offered me NOTHING In return for my inconvenience.
4. Short blocks are available, and in rare occasions an entire engine will be pulled from the assembly line and sent to the dealer (as explained by the Diagnostic Specialist at dealer)
Springs were the main problem but upon disassembly the #1 cylinder was found to be out of round and flaring from top to bottom, scored cylinder wall, and abnormal wear on the thrust bearings. There was reason to replace the block too.
Granted, but what is considered reasonable? 30 days, 45 days, 60 days, 100 days?
Last edited by UCrazyKid; 12-20-11 at 12:46 PM.
12-20-11, 12:46 PM
#21
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
12-20-11, 12:59 PM
#23
Lexus Test Driver
High performance engines may still be the same but it’s the level of detail in assembly that makes a difference. I have seen this multiple times in the boating industry where someone thought a 350MAG is same as working on a 525 EFI only watch it to go boom……
There really is a need for detail and preciseness when assembly high performance engines that clearly the shop didn’t feel comfortable doing. For the OP I would be a little itchy about this whole process of outsourcing and time delay.
Maybe try to find a different dealer with more experience.
12-20-11, 01:32 PM
#25
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Yeah, someone mentioned it, but tweet up Lexus's main account and I bet they reply. I would also see and mention something about a new ride after this is fixed. Not sure I would feel comfortable driving it after it being "serviced" for so long.
12-20-11, 02:59 PM
#26
Lexus Test Driver
Did you try getting in touch with the contact that lucasb7 provided? If a CL member has had a good experience dealing with someone at Lexus corporate on customer service issues, I would strongly recommend going that route.
12-20-11, 03:06 PM
#27
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
12-20-11, 03:46 PM
#28
1. Yes, however in California there is the Mag-Moss act and Warranty protection Act that support consumers as well.
2. Yes, a replacement car, but an RX350 is not an ISF
3. No, Lexus has offered me NOTHING In return for my inconvenience.
4. Short blocks are available, and in rare occasions an entire engine will be pulled from the assembly line and sent to the dealer (as explained by the Diagnostic Specialist at dealer)
Springs were the main problem but upon disassembly the #1 cylinder was found to be out of round and flaring from top to bottom, scored cylinder wall, and abnormal wear on the thrust bearings. There was reason to replace the block too.
Granted, but what is considered reasonable? 30 days, 45 days, 60 days, 100 days?
2. Yes, a replacement car, but an RX350 is not an ISF
3. No, Lexus has offered me NOTHING In return for my inconvenience.
4. Short blocks are available, and in rare occasions an entire engine will be pulled from the assembly line and sent to the dealer (as explained by the Diagnostic Specialist at dealer)
Springs were the main problem but upon disassembly the #1 cylinder was found to be out of round and flaring from top to bottom, scored cylinder wall, and abnormal wear on the thrust bearings. There was reason to replace the block too.
Granted, but what is considered reasonable? 30 days, 45 days, 60 days, 100 days?
it is really not that hard to order parts, you got to be careful and if you dont know what you are doing, you call someone who does. first you pull the repair manual for that engine, which you HAVE to have, which explains exactly what to do if that particular case happens.
you got the short block so thats fine (they did visual inspection), that "rare ocassion" doesnt happen in practice, nor there is an reason for them to send complete engine.
RX350 is also acceptable replacement.
I suggest talking to corporate via phone (you should have complained to them 50 days ago :-), and not only request speedy resolution (2 weeks max) but also some extra benefits (accessories, etc).
12-20-11, 03:49 PM
#29
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The term "Lemon Law" is usually used in reference to the guidelines within the governing statutes by most states to determine the number of attempts allowed by law for a warrantor to repair the warranted item. It is not a limitation on the period of time that a warranty is valid or for which a consumer can bring a suit for unreasonable repair or defective product.
You have a very strong buyback or replacement claim. If you fell under the "Lemon Laws," your car would certainly meet the criteria for a claim. However, the guidelines continue to apply for the entire warranty period, and my guess is that they do not want to return the vehicle without fixing the problem since 4 return trips for the same problem is pretty much an automatic buyback. They likely have already long surpassed the "reasonable" time for repair and are probably already subject to buying the car back and reimbursing your legal fees.
You do have to pay for the time you had the car prior to the first appearance of the uncorrectable problem. In California, that looks to be 1/6 of the purchase price based on your mileage. If you are OK with them paying you 5/6 of the purchase price of the vehicle in buyback, you should contact an attorney right away.
http://ag.ca.gov/consumers/general/lemon.php
You have a very strong buyback or replacement claim. If you fell under the "Lemon Laws," your car would certainly meet the criteria for a claim. However, the guidelines continue to apply for the entire warranty period, and my guess is that they do not want to return the vehicle without fixing the problem since 4 return trips for the same problem is pretty much an automatic buyback. They likely have already long surpassed the "reasonable" time for repair and are probably already subject to buying the car back and reimbursing your legal fees.
You do have to pay for the time you had the car prior to the first appearance of the uncorrectable problem. In California, that looks to be 1/6 of the purchase price based on your mileage. If you are OK with them paying you 5/6 of the purchase price of the vehicle in buyback, you should contact an attorney right away.
http://ag.ca.gov/consumers/general/lemon.php
12-20-11, 03:55 PM
#30
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
you got the short block so thats fine (they did visual inspection), that "rare ocassion" doesnt happen in practice, nor there is an reason for them to send complete engine.
I suggest talking to corporate via phone (you should have complained to them 50 days ago :-), and not only request speedy resolution (2 weeks max) but also some extra benefits (accessories, etc).
I suggest talking to corporate via phone (you should have complained to them 50 days ago :-), and not only request speedy resolution (2 weeks max) but also some extra benefits (accessories, etc).
I have been logging calls to 800-25LEXUS for quite some time, I did not wait until now. It doesn't seem to get me very far, it's all one way communication. I have remained very polite, patient and stuck to the facts in all interactions.
spwolf: Do you work for Toyota Motor Company?