mmarshall

Unfortunately for the Alfisti among us, but it looks like the marque's long-awaited return to the American market has been set back at least a year....again. They were driven out of the U.S. market, in 1995, by falling sales (less than 1000 in their last year here) and by increasing emissions and CAFE rules that just made it impractical for them to stay here with the low sales.

I can still remember seeing the last Alfa (a 164 sedan) displayed at the Washington, D.C. Auto Show before they left the American market. It was actually a pretty-good-sized car, probably between mid-size and full-sized by our standards today. It had the usual nice Italian stylng (in the classic Italian bright red, of course....what else?) But the dash ergonomics were a mess, with too many closely-spaced identical buttons......kind of like many of of the Oldsmobiles of that period.


http://www.worldcarfans.com/11109163...ew-suv-delayed

Delay means the Alfa Romeo brand won't launch in the United States until 2013

At a slide presentation by Alfa Romeo, the Fiat Group brand confirmed it was delaying its U.S.-market launch into 2013 yet again. The brand had been previously scheduled to make a North American debut in late 2012.

The Giulia sedan and wagon are also now planned for introduction in 2014, instead of 2013, as previously stated by Fiat. That model will likely represent the core of brand sales in the United States. But Alfa is still planning on introducing the 4C sport coupe and an SUV first upon its market entry.

Uncertainty still surrounds the SUV, though. According to the report, there are questions within Fiat Group (which now owns a majority stake in Chrysler) about where to build the new SUV. Originally, production was planned to take place in Italy, but that decision has been put-off due to questions of cost. Fiat may opt to produce the new SUV in North America where costs would be lower. A decision is said to becoming by the end of the month.

mmarshall

Here's a shot of a 164 of that vintage....and those center-stack buttons:

S2000toIS350

I miss Alfas being here.

I believe the 164 was built on the same platform as the Saab 9000.

Someone at a previous job had one and loved it. Not too many mechanics around Boston to care for this thing though.

I was amazed at the bad job they did with the 8C here. Crazy pricing, tough to figure out who could get you one and at the end of the day not that special a car in terms of performance once you discounted the drop dead gorgeous looks.

Like I have been saying, the Fiat dealers need Alfas to sell to make their business model work.

mmarshall

Not surprising. The 9000 was a pretty good-sized car, too.

That's because as soon they fixed one thing, something else often broke the next day. Tended to keep them busy, though.....and employed.

Eventually, IMO, they are going to have to offer something bigger here in the American market than just the 500. The 500 is a fun little machine to sit in and drive, but, right now, it doesn't appeal to much more than to those who want something like the Mini but at a lower price. Nevertheless, it's starting to sell in my area (D.C. suburbs) in noticeable numbers.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

shame but not surprising. Maybe a few more years is needed to produce/import the right models that suit American taste (the 500 isn't exactly the most successful thing). That said, the 164 was a gorgeous model IMO. Curious if a replacement is on the way. Wonder if the Giulietta would also be US bound. The craftsmanship is certainly there but not so sure about reliability.

RXGS

iTrader: (2)

I miss alfa's. i once had a neighbor who had 6 of them, 2 convertibles, 2 164's, one of those coupe things from the 80's, can't remember the model, and one from the 50s or 60s i want to say, i think a gta. I loved them all, and i've always wanted a 164. Ive test driven a few and while for the average person, nothing really seems special about the 164, theres something special about that car when it all comes together. I drove a fully loaded one from 1994 around for 3 days and i loved it despite having 159k miles, a few electrical issues and needing a little work.

caddyowner

Fiat appears to be on a slow motion path to another failure in this country. How did they think they could succeed with forcing dealers to open new, dedicated studios and offering only one car model with limited appeal for 2-3 years? It worked so well for Smart - not.

DustinV

Actually the 164 was a pretty reliable car by the standards of the day. It shared its underpinnings with the Saab 9000, Fiat Croma and Lancia Thema, all of which were well-received in Europe. Their biggest problems were rust and that's the main reason they're a rare sight in Europe today.

From my understanding, what killed the 164 in the US and gave it a bad reputation was the lack of trained mechanics (and possibly negligent owners). Mechanics that know how to properly service and repair a car are also essential to the overall reliability and experience of car ownership.

Incompetent mechanics (owners) gave many cars a poor reputation such as the Citroen SM, Alfa Romeo Montreal, Lancia Delta etc. There are well-documented cases of these cars arriving at their respective dealerships to the amazement of the mechanics. The best example I've read about is that of the Citroen SM with the Maserati engine. At the time of its release, Citroen had provided no maintenance information on the engine. Citroen mechanics were unfamiliar with the Maserati engine and how to maintain or service it. The lack of proper maintenance led to catastrophic engine failures and gave the SM a poor reputation in terms of reliability. Poor choices of materials (like the rubber used for the timing belt for instance) also meant quicker and wear and tear (the timing belt it turns out lasted for roughly 60,000 km before the material snapped).

I have two friends that own Alfa Romeo 164s. One of them lives in the UK and the other resides in Hamburg, Germany. According to my colleague from the UK, his Alfa has been flawless aside from a complete suspension replacement at around 125,000 miles (apparently a common problem due to early material wear and tear...). The car is his daily driver and he also regularly attends classic car shows with it. Basic care and strict adherence to maintenance schedules (oil changes, inspections and such) are the key to keeping your car on the road.

mmarshall

You make some good points....and I can agree with several of them. Still, even so, the Italians, in general, are not known for reliable vehicles. And, with the 164 in the American market, it also went beyond that. Alfa officials simply felt that the car's extremely low sales here did not justify its further presence, especially with the cost of re-certifying it to ever-tightening safety and emission standards here. From a purely buisness standpoint (independent of the few Alfisti-enthusiasts here), they were probably right.

Of course, the flip side to that issue is...how will Americans accept any new Alfas coming in 2013 or 2014? Only time, of course, will tell......but the Fiat 500 seems to be getting at least some reception here in the D.C. area, so apparantly some Americans either don't remember the old Fix-it-Again-Tony stories from the Italian cars of decades ago, or they are willing to forget the past and start over.

Lexmex

I loved getting the chance to see these vehicles up close and new when I lived in Mexico. Such beautiful designs, but oh boy were they pricey compared to their competitors.

mmarshall

Thanks. I agree it was (and is) a handsome sedan on the outside, but that Chinese-picture-puzzle of a button-stack leaves a lot to be desired.


Given the car's low sales and its general lack of acceptance in the American market, you probably could, back then, have gotten a brand-new one at a substantial discount off of list. Dealerships won't mark up what they can't sell.