I wrote this piece 1 1/2 years ago
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...highlight=450h

It became a ***** fest with Lexus haters, hybrid haters and many who hardly bring any value to CL. If you skim it and read the intelligent posts the logic is sound. Its one thing to have a difference of opinion but its another to just blindly "hate" this vehicle without sound reasoning.

We are talking about a full blown luxury SUV at 4400lbs that amazingly gets the MPG of econo-cars. It is a true win-win, best of both worlds situation. What luxury should be about.

Who gives a **** if it doesn't carve canyon runs like a sportier SUV? The industry should be praising this vehicle endlessly for it is focused on its priorities. Instead its goodness is swept under the rug and ignored largely in the press. The good news is it has always been a strong seller and owners love it.

My full review on it
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...highlight=450h

In all honestly I would love to surprise my wife with one in the garage to replace the 400h we have. Kudos to the RX 450h owners posting in here, it is appreciated.

 

Mileage factoring in cost of fuel estimated at and average of $4/gal over that time. So it's was as low as $3.20 at the time and can go as high as $4.80 averaging out at $4 given no huge spike due to disasters, wars and whatnot.

Water pump replacement isn't even on the maintenance schedule up to 150K miles (http://www.lexus.com/pdf/service/RX_RXh_WSG.pdf) If it fails it fails and I haven't known a Toyota water pump to fail anywhere below 100K which is outside my estimate anyway.

Timing belts get replaced. Timing chains do not (that's why they exist) So moot point in my calculations and shouldn't be a factor unless it's made by BMW

Brake pads are cheap and should only need replaced twice at most up to 100K miles unless you are autocrossing your RX. Once on the 450.

Resale value is also moot in my calculations and I don't buy into the logic. Look at the retail of any RX on the dealer lot (hybrid or not, CPO or not) and you have the same percentage depreciation over time and are subject to paying the hybrid premium the original owner paid. That's a real win-win for the dealers, btw. Case in point a 2010 RX350, 20k on the odometer selling for $42,995 when loaded (lux, sport). 2010 RX450h with same mileage and options is selling for $46,995 (priced out on KBB; Edmunds is similar on both counts). You pay more for the hybrid than the regular so the resale should/will be more, however, it will be within the same percentage scale. New on Lexus' site a top of the line package (no accessories) RX350 will retail for $49,393. The 450 with the only package available is $55,095 so a delta of about $6K.

I'm not anti-hybrid. I am anti-paying a premium when I can do something different with that money and get a better return on investment. I just did the math based on real world factors of price, resale, wear and tear, and fuel costs.

 

uh, didnt your 2010 used price show what RXSF was thinking about? Ie, you get that money back when you sell the car...

 

Not really. It's a sliding depreciation. I would wind up putting more money out upfront when something different can be done with it with a better ROI rather than hoping the hybrid aspects of the vehicle work out for me and the market demand still constitutes a higher resale. You are still paying the premium and in order to get back what you paid a premium for (which is what we are talking about), assuming you will keep the car to break even it will take 8.5 years - for me to break even on paying an extra $6K. If you are one that flips a car every two or three years then it doesn't really have the same impact but considering the points were raised about brake pads, water pump and timing chain that doesn't seem to be RXSF's way of owning vehicles. Although I wouldn't know why one would pay the premium in the flipping case either.

Of course this is a gamble. Gas could hit $10 a gallon and I'll cry my eyes out. But this is talking long term ownership not a short term lease or 3 year flip.

Just to point out that short termers WILL beneifit from the resale here is an article from About.com. Granted this article focuses more on the environmental impact but does have good information based on hybrid, gasoline and diesel.

http://alternativefuels.about.com/od...hybridhype.htm

Now, showing LONG term ownership from MDJ.com (million dollar journey) to get back the premium on a hybrid here is a general FINANCIAL look

http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/...s-worth-it.htm

The author of the first article states, quite correctly, this should be considered on a case by case basis - which I did. My case is what I am conveying. Again, I am not anti-hybrid.

 

but very simply, if the cost difference between a new RX and an RXh is $6,000, you are just taking gas into account. The question you are asking yourself is will I net $6000 in gas savings.

lets say 3 years down the road, the RX350 is worth $30,000 and the RX450h is worth $32,000, assuming they depreciate the same percentage. you would sell it for $2,000 more dollars, which means you really only paid $4000 extra for the hybrid, no?

so then the question becomes will I net $4000 in gas savings.

and that is before you factor in water pump and timing belt and brake pads. WP and TB are recommended to be changed before 120K miles and they cost about $1,000.

so then the question becomes will I net a $3000 gas savings by driving the hybrid.

Regardless, I am not trying to make you see anything, I was just wondering why you only took gas into account when making your decision. No biggie here.

 

One other factor that IMO is often glossed over in the hybrid cost-savings discussion is the personal economic value of having to make fewer stops for gas. Obviously I have no real world experience with either RX, but comparing the 350's 18/25/21 and 450h's 32/28/30, that adds up to a lot more time between fillups especially for drivers with a lot of city miles.

That's the only part of my IS F that annoys me right now. I didn't notice it much before when I only had about an 8-mile round trip commute before I moved, but now that I'm driving a lot more and more frequently, I can easily see that the time/effort saved not having to schedule fillups (or suddenly realizing when you're going out that you need to fillup at some point) is another huge benefit of higher mpg.

I did note on a quick check of the RX specs page that the 450h does have a smaller gas tank (17.2 gal) compared to the 350 (19.2 gal), but even then the mpg difference well more than makes up for it. Only pure highway drivers won't see a huge difference here.

 

Don't forget that studies has shown in general, hybrid vehicles are safer than non hybrid. The obvious win here is the saving on insurance cost, and then there is the intangible factor of better occupant protection.
Also, I am not sure how many people paid cash for vehicles over 50K if the financing rate is around 2% or less. Spread that cost over 48 months, I can see there is no real/significant opportunity cost for the premium of an RXh.

 

Also, the RX450h offers more power...

RX350- 270hp vs. RX450h- 295hp < I'll take as much power as I can get. hahah

That was one of the things I mentioned to my brother, when he was deciding between the 450h and 350. Needless, to say he ended up with a RX450H. In my brother's case, he will definitely recuperate the 3k, in gas. Most of his driving is in the city, and having the hybrid gives him much better mpg than he would have gotten with a 350.

 

can you show links to any such studies? if those studies are based on insurance claims, it doesn't mean the hybrid is inherently safer, it could just be that people who drive hybrids tend to drive more safely (like 50 in the left lane ). correlation does not mean causation.

 

Yes, how many people can say their mileage increased while crawling in traffic with the A/C blasting And my trips to the gas station have been cut in half.

 

You know I've explained until I'm blue in the face and now just laugh as I've explained in great detail here that the benefits of a hybrid are not just about gas mileage and not all hybrids are built with the same purpose. Its like the word "hybrid" just aggravates people and ignorance pops in or rationalization on why they are not worth the money.

Again you can take the same ****ing philosophy then and apply it to any motor. If you only speed 1% of the time, is it worth it to get a twin turbo 535 over a 530? Its funny people have all the time in the world to figure out how a hybrid is not worth it but that same math can be applied to any vehicle purchase. Is a ****ing Suburban worth it over a Tahoe if you only use the extra 7 seats and space 2% of the time yet it costs 10k more? Why only pick on hybrids?

Again you also get the lowest emissions of any car
You can possibly get tax credits
You get 50% NVH when the hybrid has the engine off. That is VERY soothing and relaxing. It is QUIET as a tomb in the car.
In some cases you get better performance or no negative performance while gaining MPG
You get better passing power
You get rarity since they are not as common as regular models
You get different looks, wheels, interiors, colors in some cases

I just don't understand how its 2012 and the same TIRED arguments are used against hybrids? I'd rather someone just say "hey I think they are stupid" instead of trying to rationalize why they hybrids suck or are not a good option.

I'm not liberal ****ing hippie either. My hybrid is as modified as you will see around. I won't ever tell anyone to only get a hybrid and all other cars suck. No ****ing way. I like it for me for now and its my first and I totally like the benefits of it and feels it outweighs the negatives (weight, small trunk, hate from people).

And please my post is not directed to anyone. Its just my general observations that luxury hybrids like the RX have been around since 2006 and most people and so called "enthusiasts" are completely still ignorant to them.

Its funny that the RXh leads the way and again, the media doesn't bring it up. The GSh led the way and now every competitor is making a hybrid and that is swept under the rug.

I like being different and I love when people say "its a hybrid???" In utter shock.


https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...ers-study.html

Not many people responded b/c it was good news for hybrids and you know, its much cooler to hate and misunderstand them

 

Well when I was looking for a car I made a decision that I was only interested in a Hybrid or a diesel that I could throw 3 hockey bags into and tow a couple of quads.The VW and the MB were poor on fuel so I was left with the Escape (too small), the Hylander and the 450H. It was a no brainer for me and I am so glad. I am averaging 32mpg in the city right now and I only have 1800miles so far and its winter here. There are many reasons people buy them and the first was not fuel economy but that was a major point. The whole overall package with the quietness, the gas milage, the luxury and the reliability are why I bought mine. And in some place Hybrids get preferred parking. I dont use that cause I dont want door dings so I park in the next lot.

Lets be honest here, people dont spend 50-70K on a vehicle to save money. If that was the sole reason then buy a used Echo or Hyundai. However there is nothing wrong with having a lower cost of ownership once you have decided to buy somthing that is nice.

 

well there were 10 replies, but anyway... i now see (lol'ing) they're safer because they're 10% heavier (batteries) and thus act as a better battering ram in a collision.

 

lol, I wonder will a hybrid maker push this data

 

I can see how they would be more dangerous to pedestrians and it has nothing to do with their weight. I have used 'creeper mode" as my son calls it (EV mode which is batteries only) to creep up on my friends who were having a few beers in the parking lot after a hockey game. I am sure I could have hit 5 or six before they knew I was there. The car is so rediculously quiet that I am sure pedestrians dont pay attention as much.