Next-Gen Lexus IS
07-07-12, 11:36 AM
#93
Lexus Champion
Hey better than the 204 hp in that 4GR engine (IS250).
With that said:
I suspect that the 3GR engine of the IS300 will be the LAST port injection engine in the Lexus lineup............and as such, I'm looking at finding a current 2IS IS300.
These will become rare like a collector's item..........and I definitely want the IS300.
P.S.
So for those in the Philippines who have black colored IS300 cars (MMC facelift or MMC facelift revision 2 with LED DRL), I vow that I would find ways to earn money so I would buy your black IS300 from you no matter what the price (even if I have to pay brand new full price for it)
With that said:
I suspect that the 3GR engine of the IS300 will be the LAST port injection engine in the Lexus lineup............and as such, I'm looking at finding a current 2IS IS300.
These will become rare like a collector's item..........and I definitely want the IS300.
P.S.
So for those in the Philippines who have black colored IS300 cars (MMC facelift or MMC facelift revision 2 with LED DRL), I vow that I would find ways to earn money so I would buy your black IS300 from you no matter what the price (even if I have to pay brand new full price for it)
07-07-12, 11:51 AM
#94
Hey better than the 204 hp in that 4GR engine (IS250).
With that said:
I suspect that the 3GR engine of the IS300 will be the LAST port injection engine in the Lexus lineup............and as such, I'm looking at finding a current 2IS IS300.
These will become rare like a collector's item..........and I definitely want the IS300.
P.S.
So for those in the Philippines who have black colored IS300 cars (MMC facelift or MMC facelift revision 2 with LED DRL), I vow that I would find ways to earn money so I would buy your black IS300 from you no matter what the price (even if I have to pay brand new full price for it)
With that said:
I suspect that the 3GR engine of the IS300 will be the LAST port injection engine in the Lexus lineup............and as such, I'm looking at finding a current 2IS IS300.
These will become rare like a collector's item..........and I definitely want the IS300.
P.S.
So for those in the Philippines who have black colored IS300 cars (MMC facelift or MMC facelift revision 2 with LED DRL), I vow that I would find ways to earn money so I would buy your black IS300 from you no matter what the price (even if I have to pay brand new full price for it)
07-07-12, 01:38 PM
#96
i dont believe Lexus will do anything radical really. It is just PR. 2IS looks good + predator grille and little bit crazier lights and thats it...
07-07-12, 02:03 PM
#97
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I think we already see the handwriting on the wall relative to the future of V-6 engines in small to medium size cars. Audi is using the 2.0T in most of their US applications, BMW & Mercedes have brought 4 cyl. engines back to the US market, and Ford is using the 2.0 Ecoboost in many applications.
Most people who have driven the Audi 2.0T rave about the useable power. I have driven a Ford Edge with the 2.0 Ecoboost and the power is certainly adequate even for a fairly heavy SUV.
The boosted V-6 is the likely replacement for V-8's in larger cars. Audi uses a boosted V-6 in the A-6 and A-7 and they are equal to anything in class in performance. The Ford 3.5 Ecoboost really moves such heavyweights as the SHO and Flex. In fact, it outperforms the 5.0 V-8 in the F150 truck where it has 420 ft. lb of torque.
Where does this leave Toyota? I think they need to ramp up high tech boosted 4 cyl for cars Camry size and below and boosted (twin turbo?) V-6 engines for large cars and SUV's. Hybrids are fine for maximum economy to compete with diesels, but not for boosting performance. Let's see a 3.5 Ecoboost type engine for the GS-F! Easily 400+ hp and 400+ ft lb torque and the same or better mileage as the GS350. Now that is a win-win!
Just my 2 cents worth.
Steve
Most people who have driven the Audi 2.0T rave about the useable power. I have driven a Ford Edge with the 2.0 Ecoboost and the power is certainly adequate even for a fairly heavy SUV.
The boosted V-6 is the likely replacement for V-8's in larger cars. Audi uses a boosted V-6 in the A-6 and A-7 and they are equal to anything in class in performance. The Ford 3.5 Ecoboost really moves such heavyweights as the SHO and Flex. In fact, it outperforms the 5.0 V-8 in the F150 truck where it has 420 ft. lb of torque.
Where does this leave Toyota? I think they need to ramp up high tech boosted 4 cyl for cars Camry size and below and boosted (twin turbo?) V-6 engines for large cars and SUV's. Hybrids are fine for maximum economy to compete with diesels, but not for boosting performance. Let's see a 3.5 Ecoboost type engine for the GS-F! Easily 400+ hp and 400+ ft lb torque and the same or better mileage as the GS350. Now that is a win-win!
Just my 2 cents worth.
Steve
The technology is now there to give turbocharged engines both very good response and performance, and fuel mileage at the same time. The days of needing to stick with efficiency killing 8:1 compression ratios are long gone. Nowadays you can easily run 9 or 10:1 or higher, and the extra torque from modern turbochargers being accessibly at 2000rpm or below lets them run extra tall gears to overcome any remaining efficiency deficit vs an NA engine running 11-12:1 compression ratios.
The Benz C250, A4 2.0T, BMW 328i now all blow the IS250 right out of the water as far as performance goes all offering 0-60 in the 6-7s range vs 8 for the IS250, and all of those vehicles offer the same or better fuel efficiency too. In the case of the BMW, the fuel efficiency is significantly better. So particularly for the IS250 level model, Lexus really needs to step up. It's the same story over at Acura. They need to retool and figure something else out as well. Infiniti is back to the drawing board too, having dropped their G25 entry-level model. With their partnership with Mercedes, I suspect we'll be seeing Mercedes turbo-petrol or turbodiesel 4-cylinders in Infinitis before long.
07-07-12, 02:43 PM
#99
07-07-12, 02:50 PM
#100
That's what I'm saying.
The technology is now there to give turbocharged engines both very good response and performance, and fuel mileage at the same time. The days of needing to stick with efficiency killing 8:1 compression ratios are long gone. Nowadays you can easily run 9 or 10:1 or higher, and the extra torque from modern turbochargers being accessibly at 2000rpm or below lets them run extra tall gears to overcome any remaining efficiency deficit vs an NA engine running 11-12:1 compression ratios.
The Benz C250, A4 2.0T, BMW 328i now all blow the IS250 right out of the water as far as performance goes all offering 0-60 in the 6-7s range vs 8 for the IS250, and all of those vehicles offer the same or better fuel efficiency too. In the case of the BMW, the fuel efficiency is significantly better. So particularly for the IS250 level model, Lexus really needs to step up. It's the same story over at Acura. They need to retool and figure something else out as well. Infiniti is back to the drawing board too, having dropped their G25 entry-level model. With their partnership with Mercedes, I suspect we'll be seeing Mercedes turbo-petrol or turbodiesel 4-cylinders in Infinitis before long.
The technology is now there to give turbocharged engines both very good response and performance, and fuel mileage at the same time. The days of needing to stick with efficiency killing 8:1 compression ratios are long gone. Nowadays you can easily run 9 or 10:1 or higher, and the extra torque from modern turbochargers being accessibly at 2000rpm or below lets them run extra tall gears to overcome any remaining efficiency deficit vs an NA engine running 11-12:1 compression ratios.
The Benz C250, A4 2.0T, BMW 328i now all blow the IS250 right out of the water as far as performance goes all offering 0-60 in the 6-7s range vs 8 for the IS250, and all of those vehicles offer the same or better fuel efficiency too. In the case of the BMW, the fuel efficiency is significantly better. So particularly for the IS250 level model, Lexus really needs to step up. It's the same story over at Acura. They need to retool and figure something else out as well. Infiniti is back to the drawing board too, having dropped their G25 entry-level model. With their partnership with Mercedes, I suspect we'll be seeing Mercedes turbo-petrol or turbodiesel 4-cylinders in Infinitis before long.
there were rumors few months ago in European media about new Auris (Corolla) getting new small displacement turbo, so we will see.
I am still not sure if they will actually replace 3.5l though (Camry, etc), especially in USA, someone still has to prove it is better combination, so far, it is still unproven. I mean if Toyota comes out with turbo 4cly for Camry, that gets only 1 mpg more than GR and costs $1k more, that would suck big time.
Maybe we in Europe will get new gen turbos, and you will be stuck with V6's :-). Just like we got Valvematic and DI that US never got.
07-07-12, 03:10 PM
#101
p.s. here is one of the articles:
http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2012...turbo-engines/
but I would take it with grain of salt as 30% of it is writen badly, so how do we know rest of it could be true? For instance Gazoo is Toyoda's toy, not some outside firm, and they probably dont develop anything for the engine, but some internal Toyota team does...
But there are some interesting tidbits:
1. GRMN showed 180hp 1.6l Turbo in Yaris. GRMN does not do engine development, Toyota does it.
2. TMG is going to show Yaris Rally Turbo, based on 1.6l. TMG relies on Toyota Japan for engines.
3. Article mentions Crown - Crown uses 4GR engines mostly (there is 2GR and 3GR too). Since China taxes everything above 2.0l a lot and China is big export for Crown and other Toyotas.......
4. Toyota Prius engineers revealed that they are targetting 40%-45% thermal efficiency for next generation Prius. 2nd was 37% and 3rd was 38%.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2011...-20110411.html
http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2012...turbo-engines/
but I would take it with grain of salt as 30% of it is writen badly, so how do we know rest of it could be true? For instance Gazoo is Toyoda's toy, not some outside firm, and they probably dont develop anything for the engine, but some internal Toyota team does...
But there are some interesting tidbits:
1. GRMN showed 180hp 1.6l Turbo in Yaris. GRMN does not do engine development, Toyota does it.
2. TMG is going to show Yaris Rally Turbo, based on 1.6l. TMG relies on Toyota Japan for engines.
3. Article mentions Crown - Crown uses 4GR engines mostly (there is 2GR and 3GR too). Since China taxes everything above 2.0l a lot and China is big export for Crown and other Toyotas.......
4. Toyota Prius engineers revealed that they are targetting 40%-45% thermal efficiency for next generation Prius. 2nd was 37% and 3rd was 38%.
The engine used in the first- and second-generation Prius (the 1.5L 1NZ-FXE) had a thermal efficiency of about 37%; the thermal efficiency of the new 1.8L unit in the third-generation Prius (2ZR-FXE) has a thermal efficiency of about 38%. Toyota is targeting a thermal efficiency of more than 40% with what Nakata called its Future Concept 1, followed by thermal efficiency of more than 45% in Future Concept 2 (which is based on concept 1).
In the 2ZR engine (third-generation Prius), some of the main technologies Toyota applied are the Atkinson cycle with variable valve timing to control intake valve timing, cooled EGR, and lowered friction. (In the 1NZ engine, Toyota reduced friction 21.1% compared to an engine for a comparable conventional vehicle; the 2ZR engine in the newest Prius drops that another 26.8%, in large part by the removal of parasitic loads via the hybrid system (e.g., no alternator).
Concept 1 is a cooled EGR stoichiometric spark-ignited direct-injection concept, featuring a long stroke design (stroke/bore=1.5) and cooled EGR with an EGR ratio of more than 30%. The long-stroke design (lengthening the stroke while maintaining displacement), reduces heat loss and also increases piston speed, creating more turbulence. A high tumble ratio intake port (TTR=3.0) and a high-energy ignition system (100 mJ) also contribute to improved combustion. Toyota is continuing to reduce friction.
Concept 2 is a turbocharged lean burn concept, built on the base of concept 1. It also uses the long stroke design, with a high tumble ratio and a higher-energy ignition system (150 mJ).
The high tumble ratio intake port extends the lean limit from 19 to 23, Nakata said. In addition, the lean limit is also increased by using a spherical face on the piston. Furthermore, the high discharge current in the ignition system also gives a higher lean limit.
Nakata said that the engine team has currently delivered a 42.4% thermal efficiency in concept 1 and 43.7% thermal efficiency in concept 2.
Work is ongoing, focused on increasing the expansion ration and decreasing pumping loses. Toyota is also considering a variable super high expansion ratio cycle for further improvements. Nakata suggested that such an engine applied in a hybrid would result in total lifecycle greenhouse gas emissions comparable to that of an electric vehicle.
In the 2ZR engine (third-generation Prius), some of the main technologies Toyota applied are the Atkinson cycle with variable valve timing to control intake valve timing, cooled EGR, and lowered friction. (In the 1NZ engine, Toyota reduced friction 21.1% compared to an engine for a comparable conventional vehicle; the 2ZR engine in the newest Prius drops that another 26.8%, in large part by the removal of parasitic loads via the hybrid system (e.g., no alternator).
Concept 1 is a cooled EGR stoichiometric spark-ignited direct-injection concept, featuring a long stroke design (stroke/bore=1.5) and cooled EGR with an EGR ratio of more than 30%. The long-stroke design (lengthening the stroke while maintaining displacement), reduces heat loss and also increases piston speed, creating more turbulence. A high tumble ratio intake port (TTR=3.0) and a high-energy ignition system (100 mJ) also contribute to improved combustion. Toyota is continuing to reduce friction.
Concept 2 is a turbocharged lean burn concept, built on the base of concept 1. It also uses the long stroke design, with a high tumble ratio and a higher-energy ignition system (150 mJ).
The high tumble ratio intake port extends the lean limit from 19 to 23, Nakata said. In addition, the lean limit is also increased by using a spherical face on the piston. Furthermore, the high discharge current in the ignition system also gives a higher lean limit.
Nakata said that the engine team has currently delivered a 42.4% thermal efficiency in concept 1 and 43.7% thermal efficiency in concept 2.
Work is ongoing, focused on increasing the expansion ration and decreasing pumping loses. Toyota is also considering a variable super high expansion ratio cycle for further improvements. Nakata suggested that such an engine applied in a hybrid would result in total lifecycle greenhouse gas emissions comparable to that of an electric vehicle.
07-07-12, 05:55 PM
#103
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Hopefully, Lexus make that happens again. Well, whatever Lexus will do with the 3IS engine, 2.5L needs to go. I don't see a point of keeping inefficient and under powered engine.
07-07-12, 10:09 PM
#105
Lexus Test Driver
+1 the next generation IS will be mini-GS (not a bad thing) interior and exterior, complete with spindle grille. maybe they will fix the GS inspired rear end and make it suitably aggressive? doubt they will do much with the drivetrain right off the bat. i'm hoping they will focus on the IS-F and its derivatives.