LexFather

There is no "free" market. That is something believed by people with no understanding of the market, much like "Global" economy.

Lets stop picking and choosing when to ***** about when the government is involved. B/C they sure as heck are involved with tax credits to these companies to build auto plants down to the local level. So lets stop acting like this if this the first and only time the government has been involved with cars.

Lets not forget the government gave Chrysler a loan in the 1970s as well during Iaccoca's tenure.

With that said this continues to be a ridiculous "Credit' since it is basically taking taxpayer money to give someone who buys on of these cars a tax break. There is no doubt that the Volt is a giant sales flop and disaster which the media has not bashed yet b/c they are likely told not to touch the topic.

I have to say the government raising FE standards does seem to be a good thing. People are buying and loving their more fuel efficient cars, cars that these automakers ignored and put hardly any effort into building. Now we see many 40 MPG cars and more fuel efficiency all around, even with V-8s and luxury cars. I have always said I do not understand why cars continue to get pretty poor MPG even with all the advancement in technology. Its good to see FE become something they are improving at a good rate.

mmarshall

Have you read Iacocca's book, Mike? I lived through the Chrysler bailout, and remember it very well, but he wrote extensively about both the bailout and his experiences at Ford and Henry II's dictatorship before that. That bailout (if his version of it is to be believed, as, IMO, he was a notorious smooth-talker) as anything but easy-money. It came attached with very strict and difficult demands/conditions on the company.......conditions that Iacocca and his colleagues sweated out under enormous pressure and did not legally fulfill until literally the last day and final-hours. I was amazed by (or at least his version) of just how difficult that loan-guarantee actually turned out to be....much more-so than the general public, from the media, was led to believe.

LexFather

Actually Mike I've read it at least 3 times, great book and some of his other stuff. Great man IMO....I totally understand he met the terms but the fact remains;

The GOVERNMENT INTERVENED

So again lets not act like this just happened.

Let's talk Tucker too. It is quite obvious the boys at GM etc were in cahoots with the government and Tucker was never given a fair chance.

If we talk every auto plant in America, the reason these states were chosen was state governments offered tons of tax credits, hand outs, hand jobs and everything else to get them to choose.

We can go on and on about it.It didn't start with the Volt.

TF109B

Always gotta be 'Obama did this'. Can't we just realize the credit for what it is and what it does? Instead of bringing politics to car chat?

-J-P-L-

This is important auto news. I know we're supposed to ignore what this administration is doing (certainly the mainstream media is), but I'm not going to keep my head in the sand while the country goes to hell.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

$10K tax break on the purchase of a Volt and General Motors Co. drove away from its U.S.-government-financed restructuring with a final gift in its trunk: a tax break that could be worth as much as $45-50 billion.

Bean

iTrader: (1)

I'm kind of a fly on the wall in this and there's some good debate about the merits and pitfalls of government subsidies on new technology (some forget that it was the government tax breaks for hybrid vehicles that allowed the Prius to flourish).

But your above statement is a complete lie. I'll leave it to you to figure out what the current deficit is. Let's leave the rambling Birch society nonsense in the political sub-forum.

-J-P-L-

Do you know something that no one else knows? We ARE $15.4 TRILLION in debt. Look at any source you want. And BTW, "debt" and "deficit" are two different things. The current budget deficit is $1.26 trillion for just this year.

Each taxpayer in the US is on the hook for $136,000. Not that we'll ever pay it back anyway.

LexBob2

I agree. That's the place for this thread...

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

whoa we threw a ton of money at it and it flopped, the only logical solution is to throw MOAR money at it

-J-P-L-

If the mods want to move this, be my guest.

UDel

Not a lie, just a fact. It sounds like you don't know the difference between our national DEBT and DEFICIT or that there is a difference between the two. The deficit is a annual fiscal year number of the difference between what is taken in and what is spent. The deficit won't be anywhere near as high as the countries debt, the debt is the total accumulation.

Our national debt is over 15.3 Trillion and rising
Our deficit in 2011 is around 1.3 trillion.



http://www.usdebtclock.org/
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business...on-mark-today/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

TF109B

What set that up? I'm guessing it was just Obama, right? He spent all this money and raised our debt. It's his fault. I'm no politic, nor Obama forgiver, but credit the man for not allowing the country to fall into a depression. All this talk is stupid, no one will ever unanimously agree, but this credit is more than just for the Volt. Even if it seems like it's targeted to it.

Jewcano

iTrader: (4)

The tax credit is aimed at trying to save a car which has cost the tax payers dearly, a car that dealerships are refusing, and a car that has sold abysmally. The fact that the same tax credit applies to a few other hybrids is just an afterthought. As folks said, the government has too much invested in this car to 'lose'. So they will keep losing more and more money to make it look like something it's not, a success.......

J.P.

Let’s not turn this into a personal debate, and also please keep it on topic.