GM: worlds biggest bankrupt company. Signs of Trouble?
#16
Racer
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: CA
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First, considering that Eduardo Saverin, Facebook's co-founder, is actually renouncing his U.S. citizenship to evade taxes, I don't think that an American-based corporations should give the company any of their money....he sure won't get a penny of mine (and no, I don't have a Facebook account either).
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You will also have a hard time finding his name mentioned in facebook (it's tucked away in a small corner) nor is he part of facebook's management team or directors. In another words he is just a blemish that facebook wants to clean up and forget.
Last edited by Stormwind; 05-21-12 at 07:09 PM.
#17
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (2)
This article is such bunk. GM is not the only company pulling out from Facebook advertising. internet advertising had proven to be unreliable. And super bowl advertising is too expensive. To be a smart investment. You are able to buy quadruple the amount of advertising time for the same amount. GM is more profitable than it has been in years and the government has made money on the bailout. It's hilarious that people are once again preaching the death knell after a quarter of mediocre results and not looking at almost two years of success after coming out of bankruptcy. GMs portfolio is stronger and more competitive than ever.
#18
Lexus Champion
Those 10's of thousands of workers can go work for Toyota, Nissan, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, Ford, Chrysler, etc, etc. Those companies have plants in the U.S.
Remember all those former GM customers will now have an opportunity to buy anything else but a GM product...
Now that Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Hummer, Saturn, Saab, Mercury, Plymouth, Eagle, etc, etc...are gone seems like those former workers might have found jobs elswhere and those former customers are now buying anything but Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Hummer, Saturn, Saab, Mercury, Plymouth, Eagle, etc, etc...
Remember all those former GM customers will now have an opportunity to buy anything else but a GM product...
Now that Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Hummer, Saturn, Saab, Mercury, Plymouth, Eagle, etc, etc...are gone seems like those former workers might have found jobs elswhere and those former customers are now buying anything but Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Hummer, Saturn, Saab, Mercury, Plymouth, Eagle, etc, etc...
I totally disagree with your opinion on this topic. I still think it was good idea for the government to save GM. I probably will never buy a GM car but I would never wish bad luck on an American company. I wish success to GM, Ford, or any American car company b/c I realize if they fail it affects my country as a hold. Go American did I say that...
This viewpoint also assumes that the auto industry in North America is made up of independent manufacturers. They are not that independent; they rely on – and share – a network of suppliers. Allowing big customers such as GM and Chrysler to go under would have killed a number of struggling suppliers; and reducing the size of the supplier network would have meant that the other manufacturers in North America – domestic and transplants alike - would not be able to source their supplies from North American companies.
I remember reading that allowing GM (and Chrysler) to go completely under would have forced many suppliers to go under also. If GM (and Chrysler) had gone under instead of going through a controlled bankruptcy (with the help of American and Canadian taxpayers), the whole industry would have been affected, for the worse. Toyota and Honda (and no doubt Nissan and BMW and Mercedes-Benz also) may source some components from Japan and Germany, but they also source many components from North American suppliers. (Remember the claim that the Camry is a more American car because it is assembled in the USA and many of its components are sourced from American companies.) If those suppliers suddenly went under, the whole industry would be badly affected.
Since GM, Ford and Chrysler cut loose their major suppliers a number of years ago (such as Delphi, which used to be owned by GM but now is independent), the suppliers have walked a very fine line between staying alive and going out of business; many of them have gone into and come out of bankruptcy.
#19
I'm off to buy an American made TV, or Camera, or Stereo, or Bicycle, or iPhone, etc... I'll let you know how I make out.
#20
Lead Lap
iTrader: (1)
I can't agree. The quality and design of their newest-generation vehicles alone, IMO, justifies the bailout. For many years (too many) GM talked quality and delivered junk. Now, for the first time in decades, they are delivering what they promised. I haven't seen GM cars this well-done since the late 1960s. I'm especially glad that Buick survived....and gave us the superb Verano.
You also have to take into account that the government (and corporate decisions) did allow four GM divisions to die.....Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer, and Saab. Pontiac.......and, of course, several years ago, Oldsmobile. Pontiac's death, I can understand....outside of the GTO and G8, there wasn't much in that division to impress. Hummer and Saab, IMO, should have never been bought-out by GM in the first place........many of Saab's traditional customers were put-off by the line GM replaced the Swedish-designed cars with. And the way GM handled Saturn after 2000, IMO, by doing away with those excellent and reliable plastic-bodied S-series and replacing them with all-metal rebadged Euro and GM-clones, was nothing short of criminal....that effectively ruined the division. Saturn was once a top-rated company in customer-orientation and product-innovation...after 2000, they became just another ho-hum GM division....and ultimately paid the price. But even then, that was the old GM.....not the new GM that has transformed itself since the bailout.
You also have to take into account that the government (and corporate decisions) did allow four GM divisions to die.....Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer, and Saab. Pontiac.......and, of course, several years ago, Oldsmobile. Pontiac's death, I can understand....outside of the GTO and G8, there wasn't much in that division to impress. Hummer and Saab, IMO, should have never been bought-out by GM in the first place........many of Saab's traditional customers were put-off by the line GM replaced the Swedish-designed cars with. And the way GM handled Saturn after 2000, IMO, by doing away with those excellent and reliable plastic-bodied S-series and replacing them with all-metal rebadged Euro and GM-clones, was nothing short of criminal....that effectively ruined the division. Saturn was once a top-rated company in customer-orientation and product-innovation...after 2000, they became just another ho-hum GM division....and ultimately paid the price. But even then, that was the old GM.....not the new GM that has transformed itself since the bailout.
Not 10's of thousands 100's of thousands, maybe a million, and the ripple effect would have likely brought down Ford too. And to think that these 500,000 former GM and Chrysler employees would have just packed up the Vista Cruiser and moved to Tennessee to build Honda's is a pure pipe dream. Sometimes when industries shut down the jobs are gone forever. Sure they can try and do something else, at the time the unemployment rate was around 9% nationally and well over 20% in Detroit.
I'm off to buy an American made TV, or Camera, or Stereo, or Bicycle, or iPhone, etc... I'll let you know how I make out.
I'm off to buy an American made TV, or Camera, or Stereo, or Bicycle, or iPhone, etc... I'll let you know how I make out.
#21
Moderator
It's starting to remind me of 2008 all over again.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/the...y-bailout.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...-of-money.html
There were other threads as well. I remember that GM lost over $100 Billion over a five year period before the bankruptcy. The taxpayers bailed out GM and GM did pay back some of the money but still owes us plenty...
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/the...y-bailout.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...-of-money.html
There were other threads as well. I remember that GM lost over $100 Billion over a five year period before the bankruptcy. The taxpayers bailed out GM and GM did pay back some of the money but still owes us plenty...
#22
Lexus Champion
I totally disagree with your opinion on this topic. I still think it was good idea for the government to save GM. I probably will never buy a GM car but I would never wish bad luck on an American company. I wish success to GM, Ford, or any American car company b/c I realize if they fail it affects my country as a hold. Go American did I say that...
Now tell what the benefits are of letting them sink?
To me , they are just a lead weight around the tax payers ankles.
#24
Racer
I think SULU and a few others have already answered your questions. I just find it amazing how some people not necessary you tend to put a lot American car companies or business down. If Toyota and Honda packed up and left would we really miss them? In the end I guess what I’m saying is that I care more about my country and people losing their jobs than more so the cars GM make.
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
I think Trexus and Dave are simply stating unpopular opinion that is on the money. At this rate then bail out every company and every man, woman and child that needs it. People can't keep yelling "free market' system (which is B.S) then come up with reasons to prop up companies which goes completely against "free market' views. GM saw the writing on the wall for 30 YEARS. 30 YEARS they didn't fix a problem?
Its like the man that smokes for 30 years, gets cancer of the lungs, well what did you expect. You knew the consequences. GM is no different but instead of passing, they were saved, on our dime.
Now I completely agree with the ripple effect if it closed but history has shown another market opens up. It seems manufacturing in the NORTH might be forever lost anyway so we might just be prolonging the inevitable.
Note that all the car manufactering jobs in N.A are largely built in
Canada
Mexico
Southern United States
That should clue you into something. Audi will now build I think A6s in Mexico now. I didn't see any outrage that Audi who is doing well in America decided to sell mostly here but not build here.
Now there is no doubt GM builds a vastly improved product compared to the past. So I can appreciate the product has improved.
I am going to assume that if there is trouble the current Administration is going to try its best to hold off on announcing bad news until after the elections.
Its like the man that smokes for 30 years, gets cancer of the lungs, well what did you expect. You knew the consequences. GM is no different but instead of passing, they were saved, on our dime.
Now I completely agree with the ripple effect if it closed but history has shown another market opens up. It seems manufacturing in the NORTH might be forever lost anyway so we might just be prolonging the inevitable.
Note that all the car manufactering jobs in N.A are largely built in
Canada
Mexico
Southern United States
That should clue you into something. Audi will now build I think A6s in Mexico now. I didn't see any outrage that Audi who is doing well in America decided to sell mostly here but not build here.
Now there is no doubt GM builds a vastly improved product compared to the past. So I can appreciate the product has improved.
I am going to assume that if there is trouble the current Administration is going to try its best to hold off on announcing bad news until after the elections.
#26
Lexus Champion
I totally disagree with your opinion on this topic. I still think it was good idea for the government to save GM. I probably will never buy a GM car but I would never wish bad luck on an American company. I wish success to GM, Ford, or any American car company b/c I realize if they fail it affects my country as a hold. Go American did I say that...
I just find it amazing how some people not necessary you tend to put a lot American car companies or business down. If Toyota and Honda packed up and left would we really miss them? In the end I guess what I’m saying is that I care more about my country and people losing their jobs than more so the cars GM make.
I think they are making good vehicles -now- and are on the right path - I don't really agree with the huge bailouts but that's another topic.
Super Bowl ads are a total waste of money - glad to see them NOT doing them....same for Facebook ads.
#27
Moderator
Instead of bailing out GM again and complaining about it we're gonna have to try something different. So let's come up with some new ideas.
-Maybe GM should be sold to another car company similar to what happened to Chrysler. At least Chyrsler is still around it's just owned by Fiat. The new Dodge Viper looks good.
-Maybe GM can focus on building heavy machinery/equipment instead of building cars as edgeucated mentioned earlier.
-Maybe GM can shrink even further by discontinuing Buick and GMC and just keep Chevrolet for the mainstream vehicles and keep Cadillac as the luxury divsion. I understand Buick is doing well in China but maybe GM can absorb Buick into Cadillac.
-It appears GM is cutting heavily on expenses bigtime by not advertising on Facebook and the superbowl which is fine. GM will have to hunker down and prioritize which expenses will need to cut and which they can allow kinda like what Carlos Ghosen did for Nissan but this only works for a short period of time which should not be a long term goal. (heavy expense cutting)
Obviously no banks are gonna loan money to GM and our Government has given GM plenty of money. Any other ideas out there to save GM before bailing them out again?
-Maybe GM should be sold to another car company similar to what happened to Chrysler. At least Chyrsler is still around it's just owned by Fiat. The new Dodge Viper looks good.
-Maybe GM can focus on building heavy machinery/equipment instead of building cars as edgeucated mentioned earlier.
-Maybe GM can shrink even further by discontinuing Buick and GMC and just keep Chevrolet for the mainstream vehicles and keep Cadillac as the luxury divsion. I understand Buick is doing well in China but maybe GM can absorb Buick into Cadillac.
-It appears GM is cutting heavily on expenses bigtime by not advertising on Facebook and the superbowl which is fine. GM will have to hunker down and prioritize which expenses will need to cut and which they can allow kinda like what Carlos Ghosen did for Nissan but this only works for a short period of time which should not be a long term goal. (heavy expense cutting)
Obviously no banks are gonna loan money to GM and our Government has given GM plenty of money. Any other ideas out there to save GM before bailing them out again?
Last edited by Trexus; 05-22-12 at 02:25 PM.
#28
That was my point, to think that job losses will ALWAYS be absorbed within your country or economy is not reality, they are talking points. And badly spun ones at that.
Last edited by 2008GSh; 05-22-12 at 10:53 AM.
#29
It's starting to remind me of 2008 all over again.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/the...y-bailout.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...-of-money.html
There were other threads as well. I remember that GM lost over $100 Billion over a five year period before the bankruptcy. The taxpayers bailed out GM and GM did pay back some of the money but still owes us plenty...
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/the...y-bailout.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...-of-money.html
There were other threads as well. I remember that GM lost over $100 Billion over a five year period before the bankruptcy. The taxpayers bailed out GM and GM did pay back some of the money but still owes us plenty...
There is a reason that this bailout was implemented and designed by a Republican administration. I was only concluded by the current one.
#30
I have personally witnessed dealer staff treat even their best high end Cadillac customers like total crap. I bought my GS second hand not from a dealer, and I get WAY better service then I have ever received from any GM dealer where I bought cars new.
Fix the customer service issues at the dealers and the customers will come back. fail to do that and GM will continue to lose market share until they are insolvent (again) and this time which ever party is in the White House, they will be done, and it will end in total liquidation.
Last edited by 2008GSh; 05-22-12 at 01:07 PM.