Too close for comfort? 4th Gen GS & Hyundai Sonata
06-08-12, 12:57 PM
#91
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
^^ good OG convo 
lexus doesn't need the gs to sell in 5/e numbers and that's not feasible because it has the es taking the lower end sales and is the mainstream sell.
if lexus wanted gs to be in 5/e territory, it would have to differentiate it more from es (not easy) or nix the es (not gonna happen), as well as often a broader range of gs models (not likely either).
so it is what it is. if gs keeps going at 2k/mo., i'm sure lexus is ok with that. if it starts going down quite a bit, that makes production and allocation (not to mention reveunue and profit) more difficult.
i DO think the gs could sell in bigger numbers if loosened up the options flexibility some and offered at least one more engine choice (lower or higher), and maybe went to the 8 speed auto.
lexus doesn't need the gs to sell in 5/e numbers and that's not feasible because it has the es taking the lower end sales and is the mainstream sell.
if lexus wanted gs to be in 5/e territory, it would have to differentiate it more from es (not easy) or nix the es (not gonna happen), as well as often a broader range of gs models (not likely either).
so it is what it is. if gs keeps going at 2k/mo., i'm sure lexus is ok with that. if it starts going down quite a bit, that makes production and allocation (not to mention reveunue and profit) more difficult.
i DO think the gs could sell in bigger numbers if loosened up the options flexibility some and offered at least one more engine choice (lower or higher), and maybe went to the 8 speed auto.
06-08-12, 05:01 PM
#92
And the 4GS could also directly address the critics eg:
http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...602-1zo5b.html
http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/2012...-review/263156
and the hoards of current E Class and 5 Series owners, by: improving the styling, increasing rear cabin space, more bottom end punch, and more quietness from the engines...
http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...602-1zo5b.html
http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/2012...-review/263156
and the hoards of current E Class and 5 Series owners, by: improving the styling, increasing rear cabin space, more bottom end punch, and more quietness from the engines...
Last edited by peteharvey; 06-08-12 at 05:08 PM.
06-10-12, 12:49 AM
#95
I think what Paul is saying is also another good point. The GS wasn't meant to sell in the 5/E sales figures and Lexus has the ES which means its hard to make direct comparisons in regards to sales with the GS and even IS. The ES (which was before the IS/GS) has a wonderful role and does extremely well with sales. Its easy for people to say "OMG GS doesn't sell like Germans" but its not exactly an apples to apples comparison. What is important is the GS meet its sales goal which it is doing whereas a car like the HS didn't come close and got canned.
Ryan makes a good point that Lexus needs to find a way to keep GS sales rolling so they don't taper off so badly when the model is older.
Ryan makes a good point that Lexus needs to find a way to keep GS sales rolling so they don't taper off so badly when the model is older.
all along i have been talking about the sales figures throughout the generation, which i think is a much bigger problem when it comes to brand image and loyalty. selling 2000 a month is fantastic, but if you ask me, able to sell 1500 a month on avg throughout the generation that's a much bigger achievement and that's what lexus MUST find a way to achieve.
it can be done by better spread out marketing, better refresh during facelifts, etc... the key is to keep the new cars shown out there, it carries a lot to the brand image.
if my post was confusing, sorry about that. when i talked about excuse, i was talking about the drop in sales to very low number years after years due to focus on other models, etc.. in this particular case would be the es "competing" with the gs.
06-11-12, 02:00 AM
#96
Pole Position
I'll keep this short :
LS460 rear (came out 2006) -----> evolves into 4th Gen GS350 rear (came out 2012)
6th gen Hyundai Sonata (came out 2011) ----> copies LS460 rear, ends up looking similar to 4th Gen GS350 rear
Conclusion : rear design came out 2006 ORIGINALLY designed by Lexus. 4th Gen GS is simply continuing the design language of Lexus. Hyundai decided to jump in and being that the Sonata is a popular econobox that is sold in larger numbers and seen more frequently, some people (and that includes some Clublexus moderators sadly*), make the cognitive error of thinking : Z looks like A and it came out after A so Z must be copying A! When the truth is that Z is just the latest iteration of the XYZ series that has been around long before A ever came about.
(* And by some moderators, I guess I'll just have to man up and name names, specifically I'm talking to Gojirra and Bitkahuna. If other moderators are guilty as well of their error, now's the time to confess
)
LS460 rear (came out 2006) -----> evolves into 4th Gen GS350 rear (came out 2012)
6th gen Hyundai Sonata (came out 2011) ----> copies LS460 rear, ends up looking similar to 4th Gen GS350 rear
Conclusion : rear design came out 2006 ORIGINALLY designed by Lexus. 4th Gen GS is simply continuing the design language of Lexus. Hyundai decided to jump in and being that the Sonata is a popular econobox that is sold in larger numbers and seen more frequently, some people (and that includes some Clublexus moderators sadly*), make the cognitive error of thinking : Z looks like A and it came out after A so Z must be copying A! When the truth is that Z is just the latest iteration of the XYZ series that has been around long before A ever came about.
(* And by some moderators, I guess I'll just have to man up and name names, specifically I'm talking to Gojirra and Bitkahuna. If other moderators are guilty as well of their error, now's the time to confess
)
Last edited by natnut; 06-11-12 at 02:13 AM.
06-11-12, 07:32 AM
#97
Pole Position
^^ good OG convo
lexus doesn't need the gs to sell in 5/e numbers and that's not feasible because it has the es taking the lower end sales and is the mainstream sell.
if lexus wanted gs to be in 5/e territory, it would have to differentiate it more from es (not easy) or nix the es (not gonna happen), as well as often a broader range of gs models (not likely either).
so it is what it is. if gs keeps going at 2k/mo., i'm sure lexus is ok with that. if it starts going down quite a bit, that makes production and allocation (not to mention reveunue and profit) more difficult.
i DO think the gs could sell in bigger numbers if loosened up the options flexibility some and offered at least one more engine choice (lower or higher), and maybe went to the 8 speed auto.
lexus doesn't need the gs to sell in 5/e numbers and that's not feasible because it has the es taking the lower end sales and is the mainstream sell.
if lexus wanted gs to be in 5/e territory, it would have to differentiate it more from es (not easy) or nix the es (not gonna happen), as well as often a broader range of gs models (not likely either).
so it is what it is. if gs keeps going at 2k/mo., i'm sure lexus is ok with that. if it starts going down quite a bit, that makes production and allocation (not to mention reveunue and profit) more difficult.
i DO think the gs could sell in bigger numbers if loosened up the options flexibility some and offered at least one more engine choice (lower or higher), and maybe went to the 8 speed auto.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...id-coming.html
06-11-12, 07:07 PM
#98
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Well Lexus must have heard you and addressed one of the issues :
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...id-coming.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...id-coming.html
06-11-12, 07:09 PM
#99
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
I'll keep this short :
LS460 rear (came out 2006) -----> evolves into 4th Gen GS350 rear (came out 2012)
6th gen Hyundai Sonata (came out 2011) ----> copies LS460 rear, ends up looking similar to 4th Gen GS350 rear
Conclusion : rear design came out 2006 ORIGINALLY designed by Lexus. 4th Gen GS is simply continuing the design language of Lexus. Hyundai decided to jump in and being that the Sonata is a popular econobox that is sold in larger numbers and seen more frequently, some people (and that includes some Clublexus moderators sadly*), make the cognitive error of thinking : Z looks like A and it came out after A so Z must be copying A! When the truth is that Z is just the latest iteration of the XYZ series that has been around long before A ever came about.
(* And by some moderators, I guess I'll just have to man up and name names, specifically I'm talking to Gojirra and Bitkahuna. If other moderators are guilty as well of their error, now's the time to confess )
LS460 rear (came out 2006) -----> evolves into 4th Gen GS350 rear (came out 2012)
6th gen Hyundai Sonata (came out 2011) ----> copies LS460 rear, ends up looking similar to 4th Gen GS350 rear
Conclusion : rear design came out 2006 ORIGINALLY designed by Lexus. 4th Gen GS is simply continuing the design language of Lexus. Hyundai decided to jump in and being that the Sonata is a popular econobox that is sold in larger numbers and seen more frequently, some people (and that includes some Clublexus moderators sadly*), make the cognitive error of thinking : Z looks like A and it came out after A so Z must be copying A! When the truth is that Z is just the latest iteration of the XYZ series that has been around long before A ever came about.
(* And by some moderators, I guess I'll just have to man up and name names, specifically I'm talking to Gojirra and Bitkahuna. If other moderators are guilty as well of their error, now's the time to confess
) i don't think the sonata back end looks ANYTHING like an LS460 so i disagree with your premise. 
06-11-12, 08:56 PM
#100
Does anyone think the 4GS is an evolution of the 2006-13 2IS?
The 2IS seems pretty original to me.
There are also traces of LS in the new 4GS too, especially in the lip of the boot lid, and the exhaust pipe tips...
The 2IS seems pretty original to me.
There are also traces of LS in the new 4GS too, especially in the lip of the boot lid, and the exhaust pipe tips...
Last edited by peteharvey; 06-12-12 at 12:49 AM.
06-11-12, 09:33 PM
#101
besides the more expensive exhaust treatment, i actually think the sonata 'rear' looks BETTER, maybe because the top left/right of the back flow more elegantly and softly into the sides whereas the GS looks 'thin' and more boxy there.
and what a joke that people on fb are saying hyundai copied lexus when the sonata came out years before.
i think lexus completely blew it on the exterior of the 4GS. but maybe they took a page from the prior 5 series - like this, it was no looker, but the dynamics were good and it still sold well.
plus no v8, missing features (no trunk closer in u.s., no power folding mirrors), continued extremely limited option selection and even supply... just makes the whole buying experience irritating for those who want what they want!
dynamically though, and on the interior, it's the best GS so far. butta face...
and what a joke that people on fb are saying hyundai copied lexus when the sonata came out years before.
i think lexus completely blew it on the exterior of the 4GS. but maybe they took a page from the prior 5 series - like this, it was no looker, but the dynamics were good and it still sold well.
plus no v8, missing features (no trunk closer in u.s., no power folding mirrors), continued extremely limited option selection and even supply... just makes the whole buying experience irritating for those who want what they want!
dynamically though, and on the interior, it's the best GS so far. butta face...
Also- No power-folding mirrors on the new GS ?
WTF?
I'm so mad about the LACK of the V8 engine (ALSO the sweet 8-speed tranny)..ttsshhh
06-11-12, 10:00 PM
#102
3gs has power folding mirrors. 4gs in the US do not have power folding mirrors.
both power folding mirrors and trunk are options on the 4gs, just not for US spec
06-12-12, 05:58 AM
#104
Pole Position
No but I only have to prove that the 4th Gen GS350 rear looks like the LS460 rear for my argument to stand. And it's obvious they are similar and following the same design DNA :
What is more believable : that Lexus would design it's mid-size luxury model to resemble its top-end model or that it would design its BMW 5 fighter to look like an econobox from some random Korean competitor?
06-12-12, 06:22 AM
#105
Racer
What is more believable : that Lexus would design it's mid-size luxury model to resemble its top-end model or that it would design its BMW 5 fighter to look like an econobox from some random Korean competitor?
Your statement is a little rude but it’s your opinion. The same type comments I see on the MB/BMW forum when people bring up Lexus. Lexus is an expensive econobox Toyota Jap car. Doesn’t sound so nice do it? In my opinion the two cars will never be compared or be confused so the argument is a wash. The outside of the new GS isn’t that special sorry but it’s not. I highly suggest someone get the package if they purchase the car.
The GS is kind like a wolf in sheep clothing, which is what I love about the car.
Your statement is a little rude but it’s your opinion. The same type comments I see on the MB/BMW forum when people bring up Lexus. Lexus is an expensive econobox Toyota Jap car. Doesn’t sound so nice do it? In my opinion the two cars will never be compared or be confused so the argument is a wash. The outside of the new GS isn’t that special sorry but it’s not. I highly suggest someone get the package if they purchase the car.
The GS is kind like a wolf in sheep clothing, which is what I love about the car.