Florida to tax Hybrid owners for not using enough gas? What?
06-29-12, 10:06 AM
#16
Lexus Champion
What happens is that hybrid and diesel drivers will pay more money and gas guzzlers will pay same as before. So it is penalizing people who are saving your country - importing less gas, and polluting the environment less, so the richer folk have it as good as before.
if they wanted to make it fair, they should just raise the gas tax for same amount, so for you that drive cars that get 18 MPG, you would get penalized more than those that get 50 MPG.
if they wanted to make it fair, they should just raise the gas tax for same amount, so for you that drive cars that get 18 MPG, you would get penalized more than those that get 50 MPG.
yep you are 100% right.
the most fair way is to increase the tax on gasoline to make up for the shortfall...NOT COME UP WITH A NEW TAX.
06-29-12, 10:18 AM
#17
Lexus Test Driver
It's not like it targets hybrid drivers to change to a mileage-based tax system. The tax on the gas will obviously remain, but in addition, they can tax mileage so that the people actually using the roads will pay for them. Set it up so that your normal tag fees cover 12k per year, and then have some sort of graduated tax beyond what is considered normal road use. It wouldn't single out any particular type of car, but only the drivers that are using the roads more than others. I don't see any reason why that would be more detrimental to any particular set of drivers other than those that actually deserve to be paying more for road upkeep. It would also discourage excessive driving, which would benefit both the roads and the environment.
On a side note, this problem of road funding has been brought up before, and we will eventually need to change from a gas tax to something else if we want our roads to continue to be maintained. Just from impending federal mpg ratings, the gas tax will only produce half of the revenue it used to. If you want to be really mad, take a look at ford.co.uk and see what engines and mileage they get over there that we are not offered in the states. Some have suggested that the government does not allow certain engines to be sold here because a massive exodus to cars getting 60-80 mpg would be catastrophic for road maintenance budgets. I'm tempted to believe that suggestion because I can't think of any legitimate reason why we wouldn't get those engine options here.
On a side note, this problem of road funding has been brought up before, and we will eventually need to change from a gas tax to something else if we want our roads to continue to be maintained. Just from impending federal mpg ratings, the gas tax will only produce half of the revenue it used to. If you want to be really mad, take a look at ford.co.uk and see what engines and mileage they get over there that we are not offered in the states. Some have suggested that the government does not allow certain engines to be sold here because a massive exodus to cars getting 60-80 mpg would be catastrophic for road maintenance budgets. I'm tempted to believe that suggestion because I can't think of any legitimate reason why we wouldn't get those engine options here.
06-29-12, 10:34 AM
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
They should be ashamed of themselves for promoting this as it will not fix the problem. The problem is spending and paying too much money to connected contractors to fix roads. They already have toll roads in FL and the roads are terrible. So where is the money going?
This is just a baseless claim...where are the facts
If they want to charge me more, they need to make sure every ****ing road is an outstanding road to drive on. What about people that drive out of state? So if I start at 10k, drive 9k miles in GA and have 19k miles at the end of the year they would want 9k in taxes even though I did not drive on FL roads?
GA has one of the nations lowest gas taxes and Gov Deal just voted NO to an increase and we have great roads here for the most part.
Finally its insulting that people are making solid decisions to buy more efficient vehicles and instead of applauding their efforts they want to punish them or get them to pay more again. I assume FL will now sue the Fed government and car makers for higher MPG mandates and making more fuel efficient cars. HOW DARE THEY!!
I say audit the entire DOT there to see where the money is going. I'm sure there is countless waste.
This is just a baseless claim...where are the facts
"Even though people are starting to drive more, they're trading in their vehicles that got say, 15 to 20 miles to the gallon, for vehicles that get anywhere from 20 to 50 miles per gallon now."
GA has one of the nations lowest gas taxes and Gov Deal just voted NO to an increase and we have great roads here for the most part.
Finally its insulting that people are making solid decisions to buy more efficient vehicles and instead of applauding their efforts they want to punish them or get them to pay more again. I assume FL will now sue the Fed government and car makers for higher MPG mandates and making more fuel efficient cars. HOW DARE THEY!!
I say audit the entire DOT there to see where the money is going. I'm sure there is countless waste.
06-29-12, 10:37 AM
#19
It's not like it targets hybrid drivers to change to a mileage-based tax system. The tax on the gas will obviously remain, but in addition, they can tax mileage so that the people actually using the roads will pay for them. Set it up so that your normal tag fees cover 12k per year, and then have some sort of graduated tax beyond what is considered normal road use. It wouldn't single out any particular type of car, but only the drivers that are using the roads more than others. I don't see any reason why that would be more detrimental to any particular set of drivers other than those that actually deserve to be paying more for road upkeep. It would also discourage excessive driving, which would benefit both the roads and the environment.
On a side note, this problem of road funding has been brought up before, and we will eventually need to change from a gas tax to something else if we want our roads to continue to be maintained. Just from impending federal mpg ratings, the gas tax will only produce half of the revenue it used to. If you want to be really mad, take a look at ford.co.uk and see what engines and mileage they get over there that we are not offered in the states. Some have suggested that the government does not allow certain engines to be sold here because a massive exodus to cars getting 60-80 mpg would be catastrophic for road maintenance budgets. I'm tempted to believe that suggestion because I can't think of any legitimate reason why we wouldn't get those engine options here.
On a side note, this problem of road funding has been brought up before, and we will eventually need to change from a gas tax to something else if we want our roads to continue to be maintained. Just from impending federal mpg ratings, the gas tax will only produce half of the revenue it used to. If you want to be really mad, take a look at ford.co.uk and see what engines and mileage they get over there that we are not offered in the states. Some have suggested that the government does not allow certain engines to be sold here because a massive exodus to cars getting 60-80 mpg would be catastrophic for road maintenance budgets. I'm tempted to believe that suggestion because I can't think of any legitimate reason why we wouldn't get those engine options here.
. I do somewhat agree with the idea that you're taxed by road use, HOWEVER, I don't think a fair number could be come up with for the minimum. Some people have longer commutes than others for work. 12k might seem reasonable for some people, but others who do cross country driving, (not truckers), would see that number WELL into the year. I'm sure there are PLENTY of programs that money is being siphoned into and wasted. I'm sure they can EASILY cut said programs and reallocate that funding into the road fund.
06-29-12, 10:42 AM
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Would your idea allow for roll over mileage? Say I used 9k miles in one year, do I keep the other 3k and shift it to the next year for 15k miles? If I don't use it, why should I lose it? .
I do somewhat agree with the idea that you're taxed by road use, HOWEVER, I don't think a fair number could be come up with for the minimum. Some people have longer commutes than others for work. 12k might seem reasonable for some people, but others who do cross country driving, (not truckers), would see that number WELL into the year. I'm sure there are PLENTY of programs that money is being siphoned into and wasted. I'm sure they can EASILY cut said programs and reallocate that funding into the road fund.
. I do somewhat agree with the idea that you're taxed by road use, HOWEVER, I don't think a fair number could be come up with for the minimum. Some people have longer commutes than others for work. 12k might seem reasonable for some people, but others who do cross country driving, (not truckers), would see that number WELL into the year. I'm sure there are PLENTY of programs that money is being siphoned into and wasted. I'm sure they can EASILY cut said programs and reallocate that funding into the road fund.
Developers and the DOT are the best of friends, building things far and away so we have to drive cars. They make people depend on the car, then get mad people buy more efficient vehicles and try to find a way to rape them some more. Its not like many have a choice to not drive in Florida.
Again where is the money going?
06-29-12, 10:52 AM
#21
it always continues to be the main problem of the US overall imho. people (especially legislation) keep on trying to figure out where to get more money thinking that's how to balance things out, but they never try to think fundamentally where the expenses go and why so much.
no wonder the nation is in such debts
no wonder the nation is in such debts
06-29-12, 11:10 AM
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
it always continues to be the main problem of the US overall imho. people (especially legislation) keep on trying to figure out where to get more money thinking that's how to balance things out, but they never try to think fundamentally where the expenses go and why so much.
no wonder the nation is in such debts
no wonder the nation is in such debts
06-29-12, 11:11 AM
#23
it always continues to be the main problem of the US overall imho. people (especially legislation) keep on trying to figure out where to get more money thinking that's how to balance things out, but they never try to think fundamentally where the expenses go and why so much.
no wonder the nation is in such debts
no wonder the nation is in such debts
06-29-12, 12:26 PM
#24
And the people can sue florida for not giving them a real option with public transit. Developers and the DOT are the best of friends, building things far and away so we have to drive cars. They make people depend on the car, then get mad people buy more efficient vehicles and try to find a way to rape them some more.
Its not like many have a choice to not drive in Florida.
Again where is the money going?
Developers and the DOT are the best of friends, building things far and away so we have to drive cars. They make people depend on the car, then get mad people buy more efficient vehicles and try to find a way to rape them some more. Its not like many have a choice to not drive in Florida.
Again where is the money going?
06-29-12, 12:35 PM
#25
Lexus Champion
Yeah, I'm guessing that public transport in Florida is not as good or as comprehensive as say New York/New Jersey or even District of Columbia (where trains/rail transport has a relatively wide network coverage). In short, if you're in an area where public transit sucks and you don't have a car, I guess you're really limited with regards to travel and mobility.
06-29-12, 12:41 PM
#26
You can't compare public transportation within a city like New York to state road maintenance. I understand the thought process but it's not the same argument.
Floridians want to complain; come here and drive on our roads and see how the other half lives with 'no' money
It's a state argument and if people are spending less on gas, then money for upkeep has to come from somewhere. It's not like the state highways are being used less. Mike has a great argument about auditing where the funds are going but it's a common sense argument.
10 cars used highway last year all requiring gas = tax $$
10 cars using highway this year, only 6 requiring gas = less tax $
Tax all 10 cars using highway equally = tax $$
Floridians want to complain; come here and drive on our roads and see how the other half lives with 'no' money
It's a state argument and if people are spending less on gas, then money for upkeep has to come from somewhere. It's not like the state highways are being used less. Mike has a great argument about auditing where the funds are going but it's a common sense argument.
10 cars used highway last year all requiring gas = tax $$
10 cars using highway this year, only 6 requiring gas = less tax $
Tax all 10 cars using highway equally = tax $$
Last edited by oohpapi44; 06-29-12 at 12:59 PM.
06-29-12, 01:30 PM
#27
it's just terrible how high up politicians and officials think that's the solution to everything, anything. to be honest i think it really goes back to fundamentals and basic morals....
hahaha, very true, except the bound to work part. evidently we have seen how that has played out on the US economy the past years. sigh... 
06-29-12, 02:51 PM
#28
Their problem is if EV drivers are not paying anything to repair their roads, but I am sure that at the end it is beneficial to the state due to all the other reasons EV's are beneficial.
06-30-12, 11:36 AM
#30
Super Moderator
And the people can sue florida for not giving them a real option with public transit. Developers and the DOT are the best of friends, building things far and away so we have to drive cars. They make people depend on the car, then get mad people buy more efficient vehicles and try to find a way to rape them some more.
Its not like many have a choice to not drive in Florida.
Again where is the money going?
Developers and the DOT are the best of friends, building things far and away so we have to drive cars. They make people depend on the car, then get mad people buy more efficient vehicles and try to find a way to rape them some more. Its not like many have a choice to not drive in Florida.
Again where is the money going?
Taken for a Ride, How the Transit Tax went off Track
http://www.miamiherald.com/multimedi...sit/index.html