2015 Nissan Z
01-21-14, 09:48 AM
#76
Right. But you fail to see my point. I understand that they were marketing the car as the poor man's Porsche Boxster/Cayman. However, they didn't price it closely to those cars either. What I meant by Nissan moving upmarket and going after Audi and Porsche was in terms of quality, refinement and most importantly in price. That dragged sales. Nissan expected the same sales numbers with the 370Z like they had with the 350Z.
01-21-14, 10:25 AM
#77
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Right. But you fail to see my point. I understand that they were marketing the car as the poor man's Porsche Boxster/Cayman. However, they didn't price it closely to those cars either. What I meant by Nissan moving upmarket and going after Audi and Porsche was in terms of quality, refinement and most importantly in price. That dragged sales. Nissan expected the same sales numbers with the 370Z like they had with the 350Z.
01-21-14, 12:17 PM
#78
Their problem is that it sells only in the USA, as it is too expensive everywhere else... so basically when they sell 13k in the USA, they sell maybe 15-20k worldwide... where FRS can draw from other markets to sell almost 100k worldwide.
If you look at it from pure numbers, 30k 370Z is way more value than 25k FRS.
Tantrix probably hits the issue to the head - problem is that people dont want 370Z, regardless of price.
01-21-14, 01:15 PM
#79
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It is questionable if Z can sell ever again like it did for those few years, it was another market back then... Their 2013 sales are pretty good compared to FRS for instance.
Their problem is that it sells only in the USA, as it is too expensive everywhere else... so basically when they sell 13k in the USA, they sell maybe 15-20k worldwide... where FRS can draw from other markets to sell almost 100k worldwide.
If you look at it from pure numbers, 30k 370Z is way more value than 25k FRS.
Tantrix probably hits the issue to the head - problem is that people dont want 370Z, regardless of price.
Their problem is that it sells only in the USA, as it is too expensive everywhere else... so basically when they sell 13k in the USA, they sell maybe 15-20k worldwide... where FRS can draw from other markets to sell almost 100k worldwide.
If you look at it from pure numbers, 30k 370Z is way more value than 25k FRS.
Tantrix probably hits the issue to the head - problem is that people dont want 370Z, regardless of price.
i dont see how their 2013 sales of 6,561 units were pretty good. i know it is a newer design but FRS sold 18,327 units last year.
so thats more evidence that the Z needs to be less. oh i agreed with Tantrix that the Z is a pretty ugly looking car as well.
01-21-14, 02:19 PM
#80
I don't think people usually want a car with a face that looks like it needs braces...or a japanese dracula with fangs. I have no idea what the designers were thinking. they mind as well have flipped a coin on the design idea. At least then they have a 50 percent chance of getting it right.
01-21-14, 02:27 PM
#81
idk if Nissan can do those numbers either. but something has to be done to stop its sales from decline even further. if things keep going the way they are than maybe we will see the same repeat of the 90s with the 300zx.
i dont see how their 2013 sales of 6,561 units were pretty good. i know it is a newer design but FRS sold 18,327 units last year.
so thats more evidence that the Z needs to be less. oh i agreed with Tantrix that the Z is a pretty ugly looking car as well.
i dont see how their 2013 sales of 6,561 units were pretty good. i know it is a newer design but FRS sold 18,327 units last year.
so thats more evidence that the Z needs to be less. oh i agreed with Tantrix that the Z is a pretty ugly looking car as well.
I think the main problem is desirability, nobody wants it, even at very low price.
If FR-S offered 330hp engine and all the features of base 370z, for 30k, it would probably double the sales. FR-S is not a great deal, it is great car. Thats always much easier to sell.
01-21-14, 02:28 PM
#82
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I don't think people usually want a car with a face that looks like it needs braces...or a japanese dracula with fangs. I have no idea what the designers were thinking. they mind as well have flipped a coin on the design idea. At least then they have a 50 percent chance of getting it right.
My experience with the Z, both 350 and 370, (have friends who own both) is that I can't imagine having it as a daily driver. It's just too hard core... too punishing. In fact, one of these friends has it as her second car... for weekends and short blasts.
I think lots of people test the Z and just come away feeling like they just couldn't drive it everyday. I would wager that a lot of people who buy the 370Z simply have it as a secondary driver.
01-22-14, 11:08 AM
#83
Lexus Fanatic
Biggest mistake by Nissan was going after the Audi TT and Porsche Boxter with the 370Z. Moving upmarket excluded all the people who were able to afford the car it replaced. They realize this and have decided to go back to their original formula of affordable performance. Thank God. But please, restyle that concept.
I think going downmarket with a turbo 4 is a really bad decision for the new Z. The Z never had a 4 cylinder, it was originally a inline 6 and then a V6 and it should remain a 6 cylinder sports car. Many find the current 370 ugly and unappealing which is why it does not sell well, a major re design is needed, if they could go back to the lower sleek looks of the 300ZX and give it a better ride while improving performance sales would improve drastically. They toyed with putting a 4 cylinder in the 350Z when the 240z concept came out in 1999 or 2000 but so many complained about a 4 cylinder that they dropped that idea pretty quick.
01-22-14, 12:02 PM
#84
They went after the Audi TT with the original 350Z, at least design wise it had that similar shape/profile which many car makers tried to emulate after all the attention the original TT got. They really cut corners in the interior and overall refinement of the 350Z but it was still pretty popular because at that time there was no affordable good 6 cylinder rwd sports cars and the return of the Z car was a big deal. The 370Z more or less addressed the poor quality and design of the interior of the 350 Z's interior then going upscale after the TT, the TT's interior/exterior design hype had died down by the time the 370Z hit the market. The 350Z and 370Z are still more downscale then the last 300ZX which was priced closer and competed with Corvettes, 911's, Supra's, etc.
I think going downmarket with a turbo 4 is a really bad decision for the new Z. The Z never had a 4 cylinder, it was originally a inline 6 and then a V6 and it should remain a 6 cylinder sports car. Many find the current 370 ugly and unappealing which is why it does not sell well, a major re design is needed, if they could go back to the lower sleek looks of the 300ZX and give it a better ride while improving performance sales would improve drastically. They toyed with putting a 4 cylinder in the 350Z when the 240z concept came out in 1999 or 2000 but so many complained about a 4 cylinder that they dropped that idea pretty quick.
I think going downmarket with a turbo 4 is a really bad decision for the new Z. The Z never had a 4 cylinder, it was originally a inline 6 and then a V6 and it should remain a 6 cylinder sports car. Many find the current 370 ugly and unappealing which is why it does not sell well, a major re design is needed, if they could go back to the lower sleek looks of the 300ZX and give it a better ride while improving performance sales would improve drastically. They toyed with putting a 4 cylinder in the 350Z when the 240z concept came out in 1999 or 2000 but so many complained about a 4 cylinder that they dropped that idea pretty quick.
Going back down market would be the only logical choice. Nissan has Infiniti to go after more prestigious brands like Audi with they're rich interiors and options lists. Nissan needs to focus on it's mission. Affordable products for the masses.
What's wrong with all the downsizing nowadays? It's all personal preference. Why would you say no to a theoretical 380Z with a 2.8L 4 banger turbo that's pumping out 330 hp and 310 ft/lb torque with slightly better mph in a lighter, sleeker package? The Mustang is going to do it. The F-150 already did it. Now, what I'd like to see is perhaps a base 4 banger and a higher performance V6 Nismo edition or something.
01-22-14, 02:12 PM
#85
^^^ there's nothing wrong with downsizing the Z a bit and saving weight. Giving it a smaller motor and turning a $30k car into a $25k car is. If the consensus is that the materials are rather cheap and flimsy now, imagine what they'd look like in a car stating at almost $5k less.
If the other thread is true and the new car Nissan is making will compete with the FRS, what would the point be in selling a cheaper Z anyway? You let the kids buy that car, the Z becomes aspirational and when they have enough money they move up.
Also, it wouldn't be a "380" with a smaller engine; typically the number in front of the "Z" correlated to engine size:
370: 3.7L
350: 3.5L
300ZX: 3L
280: 2.8L
Etc...
If the other thread is true and the new car Nissan is making will compete with the FRS, what would the point be in selling a cheaper Z anyway? You let the kids buy that car, the Z becomes aspirational and when they have enough money they move up.
Also, it wouldn't be a "380" with a smaller engine; typically the number in front of the "Z" correlated to engine size:
370: 3.7L
350: 3.5L
300ZX: 3L
280: 2.8L
Etc...
Last edited by 92 SC400; 01-22-14 at 02:18 PM.
01-22-14, 02:59 PM
#86
Lexus Fanatic
A lot of people think that the 3ISx50 is ugly. Selling pretty well IIRC.
Going back down market would be the only logical choice. Nissan has Infiniti to go after more prestigious brands like Audi with they're rich interiors and options lists. Nissan needs to focus on it's mission. Affordable products for the masses.
What's wrong with all the downsizing nowadays? It's all personal preference. Why would you say no to a theoretical 380Z with a 2.8L 4 banger turbo that's pumping out 330 hp and 310 ft/lb torque with slightly better mph in a lighter, sleeker package? The Mustang is going to do it. The F-150 already did it. Now, what I'd like to see is perhaps a base 4 banger and a higher performance V6 Nismo edition or something.
Going back down market would be the only logical choice. Nissan has Infiniti to go after more prestigious brands like Audi with they're rich interiors and options lists. Nissan needs to focus on it's mission. Affordable products for the masses.
What's wrong with all the downsizing nowadays? It's all personal preference. Why would you say no to a theoretical 380Z with a 2.8L 4 banger turbo that's pumping out 330 hp and 310 ft/lb torque with slightly better mph in a lighter, sleeker package? The Mustang is going to do it. The F-150 already did it. Now, what I'd like to see is perhaps a base 4 banger and a higher performance V6 Nismo edition or something.
A 2 seat sports car is a more emotional purchase and its looks play a bigger part in a purchase over a sedan, I am not saying the 370Z is hideous, most people just don't seem to like the styling and find it unappealing and that is a big reason it is not selling not to mention the punishing ride, rough engine, poor fuel economy, etc.
Going downmarket is not the only logical choice, making a better improved car is another way. Going downmarket can also have major drawbacks and turn people off too, it has happened before. There is already the Scion FRS, BRZ, Miata, Genesis coupe at the downmarket end, there are not as many 6 cylinder rwd semi affordable sports cars which could be a good opportunity for Nissan. Nissan has always sold the Z car, a Z car is not suitable for a luxury brand. Infiniti has never been a performance or sportscar brand, making a 6 cylinder Z car a Infiniti will just add thousands to the price and will step on the G coupe.
The interior of the current 370Z is nothing to write home about, it is not some Audi esque special interior, it is noticeably below other cars costing the same or more. If Nissan is focusing on its mission of affordable cars for the masses then they will also have to dump the GTR, Maxima's get pretty pricey too.
I would not want a high strung turbo 4 cylinder in the Z car, there is really no advantage. Big hp turbo 4's especially a 2.8 liter don't get any better mileage then a 6 cylinder so what is the point, just to give the illusion of being more environmentally friendly. Post the question on a Z car site how they feel about a turbo 4 cylinder in the Z and see what the reaction is, I bet it is mostly negative. Nissan is already going to be selling a more downmarket rwd 4 cylinder BRZ competitor so what is the point of a 4 cylinder cheaper Z, have 2 more downmarket rwd 4 cylinder cars and then a 100K GTR? They need something in between.
01-22-14, 03:12 PM
#87
Lexus Test Driver
3rd Gen IS is ugly ? Those people need their eyes checked. Honestly. 3rd Gen IS is mean, and fit, and aggressive. The only thing I would complain about is a weaker engine.
The 2014 Jeep Cherokee is ugly.....the WRX is Funky.....the 350-370Z look Horrendous...the 13 Camry look OLD...the Accord and Civic look boring....
The 2014 Jeep Cherokee is ugly.....the WRX is Funky.....the 350-370Z look Horrendous...the 13 Camry look OLD...the Accord and Civic look boring....
01-22-14, 08:19 PM
#89
what do you think made its sales dropped so bad?
it was listed for $26k in 2003. but most of the ones on the lot were around $30k give or take. So fair enough. but if you think you are you are going to find a new 370z on the lot for its list price of $30k keep dreaming.
it was listed for $26k in 2003. but most of the ones on the lot were around $30k give or take. So fair enough. but if you think you are you are going to find a new 370z on the lot for its list price of $30k keep dreaming.
